Saw this on the Beretta web site today. They are I guess, unveiling the new M-85 at the shot show. The Beretta site shows a Hunter model--blue/walnut, a Greywolf model--laminated stainless, and the Stainless Syn--description copied below. I'm trying to order some right now!


Sako 85 Stainless Synthetic

This rifle is a balanced blending of Sako-style performance, tasteful innovation and Italian design. It features a controlled-round feeding all-stainless action, match-grade free-floating hammer-forged barrel, adjustable trigger and detachable magazine with Total Control technology. The synthetic stock incorporates warm-feeling, nonslip rubber inserts. The FinSoft recoil-absorption system dramatically reduces felt recoil, especially in the shooter’s cheek. Aesthetically, the Sako 85 Stainless Synthetic is another fruit of worldclass Giugiaro designers, organically combining the lines of the stock with those of the barreled action.

Sako 85 Stainless Synthetic


Sako Quad Hunter and Combo


Just good can come from the Beretta/Sako combination!

quote:

Just good can come from the Beretta/Sako combination!

quote:

Beretta UGB25 Xcel, 12 ga.

The Beretta UGB25 Xcel semiautomatic gun features an innovative locking system with break-open barrel that allows operation in complete safety during competitions. Unlike conventional fixed-barrel semiautomatic shotguns, this new type of locking system enables the shooter to move from one firing station to another without having to extract the chambered cartridge, simply by levering the barrel downwards. The single barrel offers the advantage of maintaining the point of impact of the second shot exactly in line with that of the first shot, thus ensuring excellent performance.

With innovative designs like with this shotgun - Why not?

quote:

Originally posted by Fish30114:
Saw this on the Beretta web site today. They are I guess, unveiling the new M-85 at the shot show. The Beretta site shows a Hunter model--blue/walnut, a Greywolf model--laminated stainless, and the Stainless Syn--description copied below. I'm trying to order some right now!


Sako 85 Stainless Synthetic

This rifle is a balanced blending of Sako-style performance, tasteful innovation and Italian design. It features a controlled-round feeding all-stainless action, match-grade free-floating hammer-forged barrel, adjustable trigger and detachable magazine with Total Control technology. The synthetic stock incorporates warm-feeling, nonslip rubber inserts. The FinSoft recoil-absorption system dramatically reduces felt recoil, especially in the shooter’s cheek. Aesthetically, the Sako 85 Stainless Synthetic is another fruit of worldclass Giugiaro designers, organically combining the lines of the stock with those of the barreled action.

This rifle had caught my eye as well. I did an internet search to get up to speed on the technical aspects of this rifle. What I got was it was to celebrate the Sako 85th Anniversary. It is the M-75 (3-lug/pushfeed/claw extraction bolt rifle) that is improved/modified into a full blown control feed rifle. The M-85 versions are limited to the lower end calibers, but the Deluxe 416 Rem Mag version found under the custom rifles is the same control feed rifle in a DG caliber. Prices for these are closely inline w/ the regular pushfeed M-75s.

If this rig proves reliable in the field, I'm getting a 416!

Gary

Thanks for the input guys.

That is what I was looking for Gary, I'm on the trail of a couple right now!

Thanks--Don

quote:

Originally posted by Fish30114:
Thanks for the input guys.

That is what I was looking for Gary, I'm on the trail of a couple right now!

Thanks--Don

Don,

If you get one of the 416s, please post an evaluation. This rifle appears to be reasonably priced; if it proves reliable, I can see it being an excellent choice for a turn key DG rifle.

Gary

Gary, if I was going that route, I definitely would, but I guess at 5'10" & 245lbs. I'm a wuss. I recently got another Sauer 202 takedown, with 3 barrels, one a 416 Rem Mag, and I only got 10 rounds through her, and decided that a 375 H&H is the top of my tolerance range. I actually plan to sell or trade the 416 barrel--guess I need to post on AR and see what comes up.

Sorry to ramble, but I'm chasing .22-250, .270 Win, .270 WSM, 300 WSM, and possibly a 375.

Regards--Don

416 Rem Model 75 on left, 416 Rem Mag Model 85 on right.

If the 416 Model 85 is available with standard hinged bottom metal instead of a detachable box magazine (also known as a "where the heck did that think go?" magazine) it would be a good turnkey DGR indeed.

lawndart

I looked through the caliber listings on the BerettaUSA website and it looks like the only magnums that the 85 is coming out in this year are the WSM's -including the 7WSM. I may have to play with one in 7 WSM.
It also looks like the list price is about $215 higher than the same hunter model 75.
I'm also curious about the magazine release. It mentions some sort of release safety on them.
I also may wait for a Finnlite version to come out but we'll see.
Fish, I wish I had a Sauer take-down to talk you out of that 416 barrel for.............DJ

quote:

Originally posted by lawndart:
If the 416 Model 85 is available with standard hinged bottom metal instead of a detachable box magazine (also known as a "where the heck did that think go?" magazine) it would be a good turnkey DGR indeed.

lawndart

The Sako 75 Deluxe 416 Rem Mag is built for big game hunting. It has a Sako 75 Magnum action that is specially designed for belted H&H size Magnum cartridges. Durable bolt is machined from a single special steel forging and has no weldings. Controlled cartridge feed combined with 3 locking lug bolt - exlusive to Sako - gives this beauty reliability in all hunting situations. The fixed magazine, with hinged and engraved floorplate holds four cartridges. Open sights with post bead are adjustable for vindage. On request, also available without open sights.

http://www.sako.fi/custom_shop_rem_mag.html#

It appears to have all the bases covered as long as it works in the field.

Gary

quote:

It mentions some sort of release safety on them.

Hmmmmmmm,

It seems more than one person has had a detachable magazine fall out.

"The extractor is the same, just the bottom of the bolt has been machined away, so with the extractor on top, it doesnt 'control round feed until the last inch or so of pushing the bolt forward. More like a push-feed than CRF. Also, the booth guy said there is something like 40% more bolt face."<---Shopcartracing.

What with the inference from Beretta that this Beretta-Sako is true CRF one knows where the former Winchester-USARC marketing perps have found employment.

Even Winchester didn't have the balls to call theirs CRF. They call it CRPF. Same principle.
Used on the super shadow,coyote and stealth.
But I will have to say mine do work like they're designed to, which is a good thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Savage99:




"The extractor is the same, just the bottom of the bolt has been machined away, so with the extractor on top, it doesnt 'control round feed until the last inch or so of pushing the bolt forward. More like a push-feed than CRF. Also, the booth guy said there is something like 40% more bolt face."<---Shopcartracing.

What with the inference from Beretta that this Beretta-Sako is true CRF one knows where the former Winchester-USARC marketing perps have found employment.

I didn't see anything in the first thread indicating Shopcartracing had actually tried to feed rounds through one. Was it supposition, or was that what he was told by the Sako/Beretta reps? In any case, that extractor sure doesn't look to me like it's on top. Am I missing something?

I am just back from the SHOT Show, and I also took in the media range day before the Show opened. I got to examine an M85 there, and also to talk to a US Marketeer and a factory engineer.

The M85 bolt head follows their design for the .375 H&H limited edition rifles produced for their 80th anniversary a couple of years back. The photos above of the M75 and M85 illustrate what I saw.

They also had some Federal .338 Federal ammo, but the Sako rifles are not here yet.

I tried the magazine unlatch, and you need a small boy to help yu[ou.

jim

when would they be available tobuy in .375 H&H or the like ??

quote:

Originally posted by questioneer:

quote:

Originally posted by Savage99:




"The extractor is the same, just the bottom of the bolt has been machined away, so with the extractor on top, it doesnt 'control round feed until the last inch or so of pushing the bolt forward. More like a push-feed than CRF. Also, the booth guy said there is something like 40% more bolt face."<---Shopcartracing.

What with the inference from Beretta that this Beretta-Sako is true CRF one knows where the former Winchester-USARC marketing perps have found employment.

I didn't see anything in the first thread indicating Shopcartracing had actually tried to feed rounds through one. Was it supposition, or was that what he was told by the Sako/Beretta reps? In any case, that extractor sure doesn't look to me like it's on top. Am I missing something?

The CRF M70, RSM and CZ uses a spring loaded ejector blade that pops up in the lower right portion of the bolt face(when looking at the bolt face). The CRPF M70 also has this ejector. On the otherhand, the Sako PF 75 and CR(P)F 75/85 has a large fixed ejector at the bottom of the bolt. Therefore, the extractor claw itself is rotated slightly up/clockwise in the bolt face further than the traditional position for proper ejection. It is not on top though.

I do not agree that the Sako CRF 416 Rem uses the same extractor as the PF 416 Rem. You can see by the photo further up this thread that it has a much larger blade that is designed not only to snap over the cartridge head in PF mode, but to allow the cartridge head to slip behind the claw when CRF loading from the fixed magazine. Sako's version of this "CRPF" appears much more robust than Winchester's CRPF.

Also, I'm a fan of a simple two position safety like on the CZ Safari Magnums. It is either on or off. The problem w/ this design (if it is a problem), you must take the safety off to work the bolt. Sako corrects this problem by using a release button/lever to unlock the bolt w/ the safety on.

I'm confident that this Sako is designed to be CRF just like the Mauser, M70, RSM, CZ, etc. They may have gone about it differently, but the CRF cartridge will go behind the claw extractor before closing the bolt allowing you to extract the round (unlike a PF). It will allow you to reliably close the bolt over a cartridge dropped straight into the chamber w/out wear or tear on the extractor blade. It will allow you to control the ejection against the ejector. I also like the Sako fixed ejector over a spring loaded blade used by others.

If this rifle proves to reliably CRF in harsh field conditions and has the same high quality of past Sako rifles, I intend to get one.

Gary

DJ, I wish you had a Sauer takedown as well!! They are genuinely sweet rifles in any caliber though. I know a lot of folks don't like the 'bolt locks up into the barrel' thing, but I don't shoot out a lot of barrels, and these things are just incredibly accurate.

Having said that, I am thinking that this M-85 will give me everything I'm looking for in a hunting rifle, and the ability to more easily rebarrel if I should choose to, or need to. I've actually had several pre-ordered from one of our local dealers for several months--wanting to be the first one around to get one I guess....

Thanks for the feedback everyone--Don

I think that I'm disappointed in the 85. One of the things that I dearly love about the 75 is the stock,-- it's darn near perfect, far better for me than straight stocks.

For those of you who have looked at the new rifles, does the Model 85 stock still have a little bit of cast-off and a little bit of toe-out, like the 75? Or is it symmetrical?

Infidel, go ahead and buy an 85, I'll be more than happy to trade out stocks off of my 75's to go to a straight classic configuration........ .......DJ

Ooh, that would be a good trade. Thanks. It will be a while, though. Months, probably. I do like the way those model 75 stocks fit. They are the "classic"s for me.

Interesting, when the Sako 75 first came out, I was lovestruck,-- it was the closest thing to my idea of a perfect rifle action that I had seen. The only desirable feature that it didn't have was CRF, and that is down a bit on my list of preferences. Now they have added CRF, and the darn thing is perfect. Except for the new stock shape.

It appears Sako will not be offering a 375 for some time, why?

It is not in their 2007 catalog and the soonest they could even start production is mid-2007 as mentioned by the rep I talked to. So it would later than that to load the distribution channels.

Also, they are not making the 338 WM, but the 338 Federal. Surely Sako is not getting out of the big bores.

I have a 338 WM and 375 Syn/SS and both work so smooth it is hard to see needing a CRF. The PF is so slick and if a person "short jacks" then they are in one kind of trouble or another depending on if it is CRF or PF.

Sakos have worked so well, that I don't see the need for the change. This is indeed a CRPF.

Look at those pictures up above. If you can get ahold of a model 85 with a pair of calipers and a micrometer for about ten minuse, you can figure how to convert your model 75. If you can scarf one of the new extractors it would be about a two hour job.

Buy a used 7mmSTW, convert the bolt head and re-barrel for 416 Rem Mag, or 375 H&H.

Take the money you saved and go hunting somewhere.

LD

Well, I am not sure if it is worth converting. The one I have is so slick and inspires so much confidence that I wonder if a CRPF is worth it?

Simplicity does have it benefits, especially as time goes on and if you are in a bind.

~F

Well, I called Sako a month ago and asked if the new Hunter 85 would sport the 375 cal. and they said it would be at least mid-2007 before they could even be manufactured. Then it would be even later for the distribution chains to be filled (late-2007???).

So I called back a day or two later to confirm because I was going to buy a Hunter 75 375 cal. if it was to be at least a 1-1/12 years before I could get a Sako 375.

So I called several times and now they are saying it is not planned and not in the catalog for 2007. That doesn't mean they haven't had other rifles made not in the catalog because they have.

So I then went to the Customer support web page to ask because I thought maybe the phone reps are not in the loop of stuff. Basically they said the same thing, not planned.

So you can't buy a 338WM nor a 375 in Hunter 85. well, I want the big ummmph stuff, not a recoiled managed caliber (like 338 Federal).

So I am interested in if others think Sako has left the big bores behind for the foreseeable future or are they being conservative on managing customer expectations and not committing to manufacturing a 375?

I personally think Sako maybe thinking if you need a bigbore safari rifle, call our custom division. That is a specialized rifle.

But also, the current Sako PF is so slick and simple that if you screw it up using it, you probably would screw up a CRPF too.

Below is the answer from the Sako Customer Support web page.
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Subject
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Will there be a 375 H&H in the Hunter 85 Series?


Discussion Thread
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Response (Tony Primus) - 07/19/2006 09:30 AM
Hello Franklin:
Sir, At this time the model 85 is not chambered in the 375 H&H. As far as I know
there is no plans to, but this does not mean that in the near future they will.
Only the model 75 is chambered in the 375 H&H.
Thank you for contacting Beretta Customer Support.

I hope this information is helpful. If you have follow up questions or need
further assistance with this issue, please update this incident.

Best regards,

Beretta Customer Support