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First off some of my background;
Trained in the US Army as a 45B-Small Arms and Towed Artillery repairer-
1 Year of basic manual machining with certificate
BlackSmithing
16 years Civil War reenacting
So not all that impressive. But better then most.

I deal allot with Jim Smith from Jim's Guns from Windslow ME. He will sometimes hold things for me I have an interest in and what not.
He knows I'd to start gunsmithing, so one day points into a pile of military surplus and other types of bolt actions. (Normal for his shop) Said Gunsmith special, Would sell me each one from $100 to $150 EA and said they just need such things as head spacing or other similar issues his smith dose not have time for.
Is this a deal for a beginner to jump on? Or should I pick though them and see what I can find I know I can do?

There isn't anything I cannot do to an AR platform except engraving.


You can also find me on facebook with photos and videos of a restoring/refurbishing project of a lathe made July 21, 1863.

PS SORRY FOR THE "WORD SOUP"


Disabled Vet(non-combat) - US Army
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Build my own CNC router from scratch. I installed the hight wrong. My hight moves but the rails blocks 3/4 of the hight.....
 
Posts: 934 | Location: North Anson Maine USA | Registered: 27 October 2008Reply With Quote
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If you are looking to use them as "project" actions and learn from them. Fine go for it.

If they're are some nice actions in there again Go for it.

But if they're Beaters maybe think about what it will cost you to build before you get in neck deep in a project that costs more then it's worth.

And sorry to pick on you but saying you can do anything to and AR platform Isn't saying much other then good mechanical skill. I built my first AR-15A2 right after the original assault weapons ban back in 94-95ish

AR's are the tinker toys of guns

Again not trying to give you a hard time. But compared to building a bolt rifle it's like night and day. And compared to a double rifle Oh My GOD they're not even in the same class. I wish a bolt rifle went together so easily.

Here's another tip. I had hopes of becoming a gunsmith back when I was a kid. (some will say I still am)
So I went to trade school right out of high school and learned Tool making. And let me tell you it cleared up one huge misconception that gunsmiths were top machinist's. Nop no way no how.

Become a Machinist, Tool Maker, Journeyman First then a Gunsmith second. You'll make more money and have a trade that will never leave you unemployed so long as you adapt and are flexible. and that is what machinists do... We adapt. We make what ever the customer brings through the door. Learn to weld too That a skill that is getting lost anymore.

Now if you said something like I've built and accurized M1A's or M1 Garand's now that is saying something from a service rifle point of view. All it takes to build a decent AR is a check book and some Hand tools


www.KLStottlemyer.com

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Posts: 2534 | Location: National City CA | Registered: 15 December 2008Reply With Quote
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I would recommend holding off for a while until you gain some experience in evaluating the used military surplus gun market. No quicker way to gain experience and learn a lesson than buying someone else's junk. Not that he would do that to you...


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This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life.
 
Posts: 3171 | Location: SLC, Utah | Registered: 23 February 2007Reply With Quote
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What KC said.

Expecting the average smith to be an expert machinist and welder is like expecting the average police officer to be an expert marksman and tactical fighter.

Simply ain't gonna happen in either case more than about 1 in 1000, most are poseurs who barely get by. IMO it's a HELLUVALOT easier to turn a toolmaker into a smith than vice-versa and toolmakers make a lot more money in the meantime.

Pick out 2 or 3 of the best and let the rest go.
Regards and good luck, Joe


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Posts: 2756 | Location: deep South | Registered: 09 December 2008Reply With Quote
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Hey thanks for the input. The thing about the ar, I was making a statement on my training. It went from the M9 9mm hand gun all the way up to the 155 Tow artillery peace.
I m not new to gunsmithing, but as you said its best to be in the machine tool field then gunsmith. Before I had my custom rifle built I talked to quite a few gunsmiths. Once I learned that one of them sounded like he knew what he was talking about I went for a drive. J.S. Bailey from St. Albans Maine.
http://www.customguns.us/

After talking with the guy for a few hours and seeing the machine tools he has I was sold on him.
He is a machinist and gunsmith. So when I talk to people who say they are gun smiths I look at them and ask them about some things involved with machining. If they lie or don't know I straight up tell them they replaces parts, witch doesn't make a smith.
But those guys are needed, someone needs to know how to brake down the guns better then a owner and replace parts or foreword to someone who knows more.

I find when I m in my shop I'm diving into my machinist handbook more then I thought I would. But I still have another year until I can even think about my Associates degree.


Disabled Vet(non-combat) - US Army
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Build my own CNC router from scratch. I installed the hight wrong. My hight moves but the rails blocks 3/4 of the hight.....
 
Posts: 934 | Location: North Anson Maine USA | Registered: 27 October 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by James Kain:
So when I talk to people who say they are gun smiths I look at them and ask them about some things involved with machining. If they lie or don't know I straight up tell them they replaces parts, witch doesn't make a smith.
.

James, please don't discount the stockmakers among us. I know several superior stockmakers who don't have any machine tools other than a hand drill or maybe a drill press and bandsaw.

The machine tools just make things easier, that's all.
Regards, Joe


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Posts: 2756 | Location: deep South | Registered: 09 December 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by J.D.Steele:
quote:
Originally posted by James Kain:
So when I talk to people who say they are gun smiths I look at them and ask them about some things involved with machining. If they lie or don't know I straight up tell them they replaces parts, witch doesn't make a smith.
.

James, please don't discount the stockmakers among us. I know several superior stockmakers who don't have any machine tools other than a hand drill or maybe a drill press and bandsaw.

The machine tools just make things easier, that's all.
Regards, Joe

I mean not to offend!
I have great appreciation for the stock makers. Frankly wood and my self just don't get along well. I have a stock blank but I know not what to do with it. I have yet to do any research on the subject.
I also see I have dug my self a hole!


Disabled Vet(non-combat) - US Army
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Build my own CNC router from scratch. I installed the hight wrong. My hight moves but the rails blocks 3/4 of the hight.....
 
Posts: 934 | Location: North Anson Maine USA | Registered: 27 October 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by James Kain:

Frankly wood and my self just don't get along well. I have a stock blank but I know not what to do with it. I have yet to do any research on the subject.
I also see I have dug my self a hole!


I hear ya!!! Big Grin It takes a lot long to F up a piece of steel the a piece of wood. Been there man many times Big Grin

And Just an FYI/IMHO You don't need power tools or machine tools to be a master stock maker.
A few dull chisels a hand saw, some sand paper and a shit load of talent, skill, and experience.

I have more respect for stock makers then Tool makers.

We have dials, digital read outs, NC controls and math to gauge where we are in a piece of steel. The stock maker.... Well depending on what he has on hand he my only us a scale and a yard stick for measurements and use the action to inlet against. everything else can be done by eye and feel. Power and machine tools just make the roughing in easier. That stock still needs to be fit BY HAND and there in lies the skill and experience.

And James Sorry about the AR comment I've just run into to many "gunsmiths" that are AR assemblers. You can take a box of AR parts and shake it long enough and the gun will assemble itself. Eugene Stoner was a hell of an engineer.
Forgot that you had training via the Army. You mentioned that one time before. Although I don't know how many customers you'll get wanting you to take a look at their 105 Big Grin Big Grin But hey you never know so charge him big.


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Posts: 2534 | Location: National City CA | Registered: 15 December 2008Reply With Quote
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James. I take it you also now how to get your MOS training transferred to college units?? Right??
That small arms training is worth it's weight in gold. And having it transferred would help your AS degree. If not it would be another feather in your cap.


www.KLStottlemyer.com

Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK
 
Posts: 2534 | Location: National City CA | Registered: 15 December 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by kcstott:
James. I take it you also now how to get your MOS training transferred to college units?? Right??
That small arms training is worth it's weight in gold. And having it transferred would help your AS degree. If not it would be another feather in your cap.

Oh yes, its worth 11 credits! But where I m going to school, well they don't offer anything similar to my mos. But I've been to another collage that gave me all 11.


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Just in case I may have done something wrong with the credits, do you know how to get the collage to accept?


Disabled Vet(non-combat) - US Army
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Build my own CNC router from scratch. I installed the hight wrong. My hight moves but the rails blocks 3/4 of the hight.....
 
Posts: 934 | Location: North Anson Maine USA | Registered: 27 October 2008Reply With Quote
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From a buddy of mine in the Navy all you had to do was show hours of class room time. The college he went to translated them to credits and that help his over all level going toward a BS degree.

As far as I know it's should be an easy transition. so long as what you are studying coincides with your military training.

My buddy was an HT (welder/pipe fitter) in the Navy and he was going for a degree in welding science so it was a simple transition.


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Posts: 2534 | Location: National City CA | Registered: 15 December 2008Reply With Quote
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James, as a guy who has been in and around this business over 20 years, I, too started as a 45b/2111 out of the 601st(61st now I believe) and I will say the machinist training will serve you better than any gunsmithing school.

Having worked with a few graduates of a couple of schools(gunsmithing) I was completely unimpressed.
The best I have ever met were machinists turned gunsmiths and predominantly self taught. Knowledge for top gunsmiths is HARD earned and most top guys will gladly share the knowledge if your earnest and "get it".

You cant really be taught HOW to be a gunsmith so much as shown what it takes.....Then you "get it" or dont.

I am not trying to discourage you, and cant, if you grasp what Im saying

Best of luck,

Chuck


Chuck Warner
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Posts: 332 | Location: New Mexico | Registered: 15 June 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Chuck1911:
James, as a guy who has been in and around this business over 20 years, I, too started as a 45b/2111 out of the 601st(61st now I believe) and I will say the machinist training will serve you better than any gunsmithing school.

Having worked with a few graduates of a couple of schools(gunsmithing) I was completely unimpressed.
The best I have ever met were machinists turned gunsmiths and predominantly self taught. Knowledge for top gunsmiths is HARD earned and most top guys will gladly share the knowledge if your earnest and "get it".

You cant really be taught HOW to be a gunsmith so much as shown what it takes.....Then you "get it" or dont.

I am not trying to discourage you, and cant, if you grasp what Im saying

Best of luck,

Chuck



I have been told once I set my mind on something I do not stop until I fix it, solve it, build it, or learn it. These things from my past I have learned that you really don't need to go to a gunsmith school for. Its good information but I doubt you will be very good.
Now I have found what you have stated. That I m going to have to get in there and get dirty.
Hell right now I m working on a Lathe that was built in 1863. I am cleaning it up and then going to use it. The fun part is the only measurement marks are on the tail stock!
On top of that I m currently working on AUTOCAD to design my own press to swage bullets. I've emailed Dave Corbin about using his dies. He only asks that I don't violate any copy write/patented items. Not an issue. I have a post on the bullet making forum about it.
I just wish I could now find a mill for about the same price I bought the lathe. Around $300!


Disabled Vet(non-combat) - US Army
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Build my own CNC router from scratch. I installed the hight wrong. My hight moves but the rails blocks 3/4 of the hight.....
 
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James
Being from the Army you already "got dirty" Dealing with artillery pieces is no cake walk. Greasy dirty oily filthy mess.

As far as the getting it goes... You have the right attitude. Don't give up till it's Fixed, solved, built, or understood. That quality is hard to come by in some people.

But in reality Experience is the key to being good at anything. You know that already, I didn't have to tell you. It just takes time.
Buy a couple of those actions as long as they are 98's 03's or something fairly common.

Get your shop going and build two rifles in a common caliber. Parts will be easier to get that way. Do frigging everything yourself other then the blueing if you so choose. Then you can look back at those rifles and say "I built those from the ground up" and know that it was all good education.
Then you can sell them if you want and keep on going.

As for the Mill Good luck but used machines can be had cheep you just need to be ready to jump. Ebay is not the first place to look either. Just google used machine tools and see if there is something in your area you can drive too.


www.KLStottlemyer.com

Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK
 
Posts: 2534 | Location: National City CA | Registered: 15 December 2008Reply With Quote
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James,

You've been given some good advice so far, particularly about becoming a machinist, then do gunsmithing if you wish.

I'd encourage you to also learn sales and business. A part time job (or a year or two of full time) in a retail sporting goods store or in the business end of a service trade will get you a long way in learning to deal with some of the business end of this hobby.

One of the major problems with this is that it is a popular hobby. There's umpteen different gunsmithing forums on the net, and anybody and everybody with a screwdriver and a dremel tool is a gunsmith, wants to be a gunsmith, or is hanging around a gunsmith wanting to learn how to do his own work so he doesn't have to pay the poor gunsmith to do it for him. Learn to operate like a business, learn how to separate work time from sales time from generall bullshitting time, and get in enough work time to pay the bills. I'd encourage you to plan to specialize in custom or higher end work, and not general repair, as it's really hard to charge enough fixing old shotguns and doing trigger jobs on $125 .22's to feed your family well.

If you have the aptitude to learn AutoCAD, take on some complex learning projects such as drawing a house or drawing a few complex mechanical parts. This skill will transfer to modeling solids for CNC work later, or just to draw and prototype things for machine work. I use AutoCAD nearly daily for figuring out stuff. A plus side to this is that most local engineering or architectural shops will jump on the opportunity to hire a student that knows AutoCAD to draft for them a few hours a week, and the pay is better than McDonalds, and often the hours are flexible.

If you try out some of the machining or CAD skills or business skills that have been suggested, you will be better able to work as a gunsmith successfully. Or, you just may find that gunsmithing is a nice side business or hobby, and getting a higher paying job in a related field is what you want to do. Either way, you win from learning other things.

Best of Luck!

dave


p.s. I'm not a gunsmith, just a long time interest in it and developed some skill by a lot of repetition and mistakes. I learned the wrong way, I learned gunsmithing by doing work at the same time as I learned machining, on my own tools, with no instruction. I can, and do build custom rifles from the metalwork to the wood. I manufacture one rifle part that is nationally known, and I'm essentially the sole provider. I buy and sell guns and parts, and gross what many small shops do. But, it's a hobby to me, and I make a good living as an engineer. I think I enjoy it much more this way, also, then when I made a lot of my living working on guns.

dave
 
Posts: 1124 | Location: Eastern Oregon | Registered: 02 December 2007Reply With Quote
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Pay attention to what Dave says. He's a good guy and sharp as a tack to boot. I too found that earning my living outside the gun field has allowed me to continue to enjoy the pursuit, while my pro smith friend now plays golf instead of building his own stuff. Too bad.
Regards, Joe


__________________________
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Posts: 2756 | Location: deep South | Registered: 09 December 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by ssdave:
James,

You've been given some good advice so far, particularly about becoming a machinist, then do gunsmithing if you wish.

I'd encourage you to also learn sales and business. A part time job (or a year or two of full time) in a retail sporting goods store or in the business end of a service trade will get you a long way in learning to deal with some of the business end of this hobby.

One of the major problems with this is that it is a popular hobby. There's umpteen different gunsmithing forums on the net, and anybody and everybody with a screwdriver and a dremel tool is a gunsmith, wants to be a gunsmith, or is hanging around a gunsmith wanting to learn how to do his own work so he doesn't have to pay the poor gunsmith to do it for him. Learn to operate like a business, learn how to separate work time from sales time from generall bullshitting time, and get in enough work time to pay the bills. I'd encourage you to plan to specialize in custom or higher end work, and not general repair, as it's really hard to charge enough fixing old shotguns and doing trigger jobs on $125 .22's to feed your family well.

If you have the aptitude to learn AutoCAD, take on some complex learning projects such as drawing a house or drawing a few complex mechanical parts. This skill will transfer to modeling solids for CNC work later, or just to draw and prototype things for machine work. I use AutoCAD nearly daily for figuring out stuff. A plus side to this is that most local engineering or architectural shops will jump on the opportunity to hire a student that knows AutoCAD to draft for them a few hours a week, and the pay is better than McDonalds, and often the hours are flexible.

If you try out some of the machining or CAD skills or business skills that have been suggested, you will be better able to work as a gunsmith successfully. Or, you just may find that gunsmithing is a nice side business or hobby, and getting a higher paying job in a related field is what you want to do. Either way, you win from learning other things.

Best of Luck!

dave


p.s. I'm not a gunsmith, just a long time interest in it and developed some skill by a lot of repetition and mistakes. I learned the wrong way, I learned gunsmithing by doing work at the same time as I learned machining, on my own tools, with no instruction. I can, and do build custom rifles from the metalwork to the wood. I manufacture one rifle part that is nationally known, and I'm essentially the sole provider. I buy and sell guns and parts, and gross what many small shops do. But, it's a hobby to me, and I make a good living as an engineer. I think I enjoy it much more this way, also, then when I made a lot of my living working on guns.

dave

Dave, sounds like you have your self a nice part time income when you retire.

quote:
James
Being from the Army you already "got dirty" Dealing with artillery pieces is no cake walk. Greasy dirty oily filthy mess.

As far as the getting it goes... You have the right attitude. Don't give up till it's Fixed, solved, built, or understood. That quality is hard to come by in some people.

But in reality Experience is the key to being good at anything. You know that already, I didn't have to tell you. It just takes time.
Buy a couple of those actions as long as they are 98's 03's or something fairly common.

Get your shop going and build two rifles in a common caliber. Parts will be easier to get that way. Do frigging everything yourself other then the blueing if you so choose. Then you can look back at those rifles and say "I built those from the ground up" and know that it was all good education.
Then you can sell them if you want and keep on going.

As for the Mill Good luck but used machines can be had cheep you just need to be ready to jump. Ebay is not the first place to look either. Just google used machine tools and see if there is something in your area you can drive too.

Scott
Right on!

Odd thing is, I don't know of anyone in my class that my instructor said this too besides me. "You should look into continuing in the field by getting your bachelors down in Brunswick, and maybe continue from there like I did."
This man worked most his life in or around the tool room for Prat&Whitney. Along with being a machinist in the Navy and taking a 8000hr apprenticeship with I think P&W.

As it site right now, I am ordering the 4book set of Gunsmith Kinks. I only wish I could find it cheaper then $100.

For tools in this field, what should I look into?
What kind of steel should I look into. I m sure I shouldnt get cold-role, maybe hot role?
How about carbon content? I know barrels are hammer forged, I ll leave that to those guys. But for a reseaver, hot-role, mill it, heat treat, finish? Steel in the 1077 area?
What better way to learn about actions? beer


Disabled Vet(non-combat) - US Army
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Hunter, trapper, machinest, gamer, angler, and all around do it your selfer.
Build my own CNC router from scratch. I installed the hight wrong. My hight moves but the rails blocks 3/4 of the hight.....
 
Posts: 934 | Location: North Anson Maine USA | Registered: 27 October 2008Reply With Quote
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If you want something to practice on, you cannot beat cold rolled 1018. The majority of tools and jigs/fixtures can also be made from CRS.

When making a specialized tool, it depends on the application and what you have available to you. 0-1 is an easy steel for you to heat treat with a torch, A-2 is a little better to use, but you need a furnace to heat treat it.

As far as an action, it again depends. 1018, 1045, 1077(maybe?), are decent steels if you are planning on case hardening. 4140 ann. is a better choice for heat treating and in my opinion for making an action.

As the previous advice has stated, continue learning the Tool & Die or Machining trade. While I think some are a little exuberant in stating that you will make more money as a Tool & Die maker, it is a rewarding and challenging field to work in. Most older Tool & Die makers I know make about $40,000 a year.

The field also becomes harder and harder to make a living at. Manufacturing has all but left the US, and most that has not does not comprehend nor desire quality tooling. Many US manufacturers get tooling over seas (china) and expect US Tool & Die makers to compete with prices.

Sorry for the side tangent.

-myers
 
Posts: 1521 | Location: Ohio | Registered: 06 June 2010Reply With Quote
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My recommendation for tools going toward Tool and die making apprenticeship would be the following and be prepared for sticker shock. Look on Ebay for deals on name brand stuff and stay away from the chinese crap except what I list as acceptable for use.

everyone has their preference of brands but it's just like detroit you have the big three Brown and sharp, Starrett, and Mitutoyo.

I personaly like Starrett and B&S

The basic apprentice set should be the following:
0-3" set of tenths mics,
0-6" would be better and that is three or six individual mics.
0-6" depth Mic
12" surface gauge
6" dial Verner calipers. B&S is a good choice
Dial test indicators 0-.030" travel .0005" resolution 0-.004" travel .00005" Resolution.
Travel indicator 0-1" travel
Sine bar 5"
V blocks
Tool makers vise 4" jaw opening so it can hold a Harig punch former.
Set of parallels 1/8" thick. china is OK here
Set of 123 blocks. China is OK here
Set of angle blocks. China is OK here.
Set of hand files from mill smooth to Bastard in 6" and 12" lengths

Then you have the Misc stuff like
Tool maker square set
Combo square
Edge finder
6", 12", & 24" scales
Set of drills bits fractional, numbers, and letter set.
General hand tools like wrenches, screwdrivers, pliers, sockets etc..

And the nice to have stuff.
Albright keyless drill chuck 3/8" & 1/2"
capacity on 5/8 arbors.
Jacobs super chuck 1/2" Capacity
81 piece grade B gauge Blocks
Surface plate 12"X18" garde B
Mill Clamp set T nut stud set
C clamps, Kant twist clamps.


Now the top list with a Misc tools would be a good place to start. But Guys know you're rookie so don't sweat it. And as you see what tools you are borrowing all the time those are the ones you by first.
But first and for most Measuring tools are a basic MUST HAVE. Mics calipers and Indicators.


Then tool steel for actions
As far as anyone can tell the 98 mauser was made from something close to 1045 carbon steel then case hardened or carborized (same thing in the end). All modern action are made from 4130 or 4140. with the later being more common and basically the standard.
The M14 and possibly the M1 Garand were made from 8620 and case hardened.
You will learn real fast the CRS (Cold rolled Steel) is the stuff to get. Hot rolled sucks but sometimes you can't get the alloy you need in cold rolled.
CRS is better simply because it has a better mill finish on it requiring little to clean up.
A selection of drill rod would be nice to have to.

Dig around on Amazon for used books. Get a copy of a Machinist hand book old don't matter cause the stuff hasn't changed in years. then get a copy of the Machinist ready reference.
I've collected enough books to warrant there own trip when I move. I could fill the back of a pickup with all the books I have.

And get the old books because they don't put the forgotten tricks of the trade in the new ones.
Like bacon great is one of the best cutting oils around for hard to machine materials including titanium.
Stuff like that


www.KLStottlemyer.com

Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK
 
Posts: 2534 | Location: National City CA | Registered: 15 December 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by kcstott:
My recommendation for tools going toward Tool and die making apprenticeship would be the following and be prepared for sticker shock. Look on Ebay for deals on name brand stuff and stay away from the chinese crap except what I list as acceptable for use.

everyone has their preference of brands but it's just like detroit you have the big three Brown and sharp, Starrett, and Mitutoyo.

I personaly like Starrett and B&S

The basic apprentice set should be the following:
0-3" set of tenths mics,
0-6" would be better and that is three or six individual mics.
0-6" depth Mic
12" surface gauge
6" dial Verner calipers. B&S is a good choice
Dial test indicators 0-.030" travel .0005" resolution 0-.004" travel .00005" Resolution.
Travel indicator 0-1" travel
Sine bar 5"
V blocks
Tool makers vise 4" jaw opening so it can hold a Harig punch former.
Set of parallels 1/8" thick. china is OK here
Set of 123 blocks. China is OK here
Set of angle blocks. China is OK here.
Set of hand files from mill smooth to Bastard in 6" and 12" lengths

Then you have the Misc stuff like
Tool maker square set
Combo square
Edge finder
6", 12", & 24" scales
Set of drills bits fractional, numbers, and letter set.
General hand tools like wrenches, screwdrivers, pliers, sockets etc..

And the nice to have stuff.
Albright keyless drill chuck 3/8" & 1/2"
capacity on 5/8 arbors.
Jacobs super chuck 1/2" Capacity
81 piece grade B gauge Blocks
Surface plate 12"X18" garde B
Mill Clamp set T nut stud set
C clamps, Kant twist clamps.


Now the top list with a Misc tools would be a good place to start. But Guys know you're rookie so don't sweat it. And as you see what tools you are borrowing all the time those are the ones you by first.
But first and for most Measuring tools are a basic MUST HAVE. Mics calipers and Indicators.


Oh nice, I m well on my way! I have maybe a 3rd of that list. I will have more then that list by the end of my course. Our tool list was 1 1/2 pages long.


Disabled Vet(non-combat) - US Army
NRA LIFE MEMBER
Hunter, trapper, machinest, gamer, angler, and all around do it your selfer.
Build my own CNC router from scratch. I installed the hight wrong. My hight moves but the rails blocks 3/4 of the hight.....
 
Posts: 934 | Location: North Anson Maine USA | Registered: 27 October 2008Reply With Quote
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And that's just the stuff i can up with off the top of my head.
Old stuff works too. Don't be afraid to buy used Mics they can be recalibrated and Iron is Iron unless it bent it's fine


www.KLStottlemyer.com

Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK
 
Posts: 2534 | Location: National City CA | Registered: 15 December 2008Reply With Quote
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Oh and A good tool box to put it in.
Kennedy Being the top choice for a Steel box.
And if you are feeling really rich Gerstner makes top of the line Red Oak tool makers boxes.
They start at $700 and up for the top box alone


www.KLStottlemyer.com

Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK
 
Posts: 2534 | Location: National City CA | Registered: 15 December 2008Reply With Quote
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KC,
I'll agree with you for the most part on the 45B MOS being general disassembly/assembly mechanics, BUT to say there is no skill in building a custom AR is bunk. I take just as much care chambering barrels for custom AR's as I would a bench gun, or a custom hunting rifle. Use a quality barrel (I use mostly Rock and Krieger) and a careful hand when assembling and they shoot amazingly well with 1/2 MOA or better being the usual, not the occasional. That's really the only reason I build them as I dislike most factory or even aftermarket offerings for the barrels. I profile my own contours and get the balance and accuracy I want.

Yes, I am a 45B (14 years active and guard), and I also supplemented with tech school machine shop classes in the evening to learn the use of the mill and lathe. I'm no tool and die guy and I have profound respect for you guys that are.

Anyway, there are others that do amazing work on AR's (Hollinger SP?, Martin, etc) and I would class them as very good gunsmiths in their specific field.


Shoot straight, shoot often.
Matt
 
Posts: 1187 | Location: Wisconsin | Registered: 19 July 2001Reply With Quote
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Matt that's not what I'm getting at.
Most of the shops that deal with the AR platform do no more then order parts and assemble rifles to what ever configuration the customer asks for. The simple statement that you chamber your own barrels says a little bit. Most don't bother on the AR's as there are so many aftermarket models to choose from.

The thing is though these rifles are designed as a "Kit" gun on a modular platform. I'm sorry I just don't see a great amount of skill required to put together a top shooting AR when it's all purchase parts Bolt on stuff.
Bolts don't get lapped. Receivers are not trued on a lathe. Etc..
What I'm getting at is Building an AR rifle is no where near as time consuming or as intricately detailed as building a quality bolt rifle where everything is hand fit to every thing else.
I built My National match AR in one day on weekend with hand tools. Try doing that with a bolt action rifle.

That is why there are more shops providing "custom" AR's then anything else, they are just to damn simple to put together


www.KLStottlemyer.com

Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK
 
Posts: 2534 | Location: National City CA | Registered: 15 December 2008Reply With Quote
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