I was talking to a smith the other day and he mentioned that of all the barrels he has worked on or installed,Heym was the most difficult to work with followed by Walther Lothar a distant second.He said that the only method used of rifling a Heym blank could be the hammer forged as nothing else could be used-because of the hardness.Anyone have the same experience?

And that is the reason those are excellent barrels & last so long.

Heym barrels are hammer forged.

As are H&K, Blaser, and Steyr.

It is not only the hammer forging process that makes them hard but the quality and heat treat of the barrel steel.

I read today that Daniel Defense CHF barrels are 65 Rockwell.

I'm not sure I believe it, but I'm impressed.

65 HRc ??? Not for a barrel I don't think. A high quality knife might be 65 but a barrel doesn't need hardness it needs toughness !! Typical hardness of receivers is only about 40 ! At 65 it would be very hard on the machinery .
Somewhere on the internet there's an excellent description of the various barrel making and rifling methods - search for that type of info.

They cannot be that hard all the way through.
That is the same hardness as HSS tool bits.

440C stainless for knives is usually only 55RC.

A file is about RC 67

quote:

Originally posted by RyanB:
I read today that Daniel Defense CHF barrels are 65 Rockwell.

I'm not sure I believe it, but I'm impressed.

"Difficult to work with" does not necessarily mean "hard". Most barrels are made from stress relieved chrome moly steel and are less than about RC30. Hard barrels would be hard on tooling and would warp if you tried to harden them. No barrels are RC65; they mean a coating on them is that hard; chrome probably without me checking.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
"Difficult to work with" does not necessarily mean "hard". Most barrels are made from stress relieved chrome moly steel and are less than about RC30. Hard barrels would be hard on tooling and would warp if you tried to harden them. No barrels are RC65; they mean a coating on them is that hard; chrome probably without me checking.

If the guy cant drill a chamber,cut the barrel shorter,and cut a crown without damage or wear to his tools and equipment then that is difficult to work with.

It does not seem to be all that difficult, with thousands of Heym barrels used every year by Heym and many European custom gunsmiths without any issues. European barrels do have a tendency to be harder than American ones, but compared to some other materials that are routinely machined to even tighter tolerances and better finishes like tool steels or super alloys, they are still very easy to machine.

Heym does not use anything special on their barrels after hammer forging. They have a common CNC lathe for contouring and threading, and a simple reaming machine with pressure flush and a floating reamer. The tools they use are all conventional materials and geometries.

A well known gunmaker told me a couple of years ago that he could cut a Kreiger barrel off with a common bladed hacksaw in just a few strokes...

He said cutting off a Heym barrel was WORK.
He said "You better bring your lunch..."

I have heard the same from people that were installing a threaded muzzle break on the German barrels I mentioned in my previous post.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
A well known gunmaker told me a couple of years ago that he could cut a Kreiger barrel off with a common bladed hacksaw in just a few strokes...

He said cutting off a Heym barrel was WORK.
He said "You better bring your lunch..."

I have heard the same from people that were installing a threaded muzzle bread on the German barrels I mentioned in my previous post.

Another smith said that most barrels like Krieger,Lilja,hart,Shilen,etc... are soft because they are made mostly for the Benchrest crowd-or have their origins in benchrest shooting.Since BR shooters fire very slowly and use rds that are not very tough on bores,they dont need to be made as hard compared to barrels that were made for machine guns etc...

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I was talking to a smith the other day and he mentioned that of all the barrels he has worked on or installed,Heym was the most difficult to work with followed by Walther Lothar a distant second.He said that the only method used of rifling a Heym blank could be the hammer forged as nothing else could be used-because of the hardness.Anyone have the same experience?

Heym use 6150 (a classis steel for springs) for their barrels and after hammer forging it reach very high strength.
But with good tools it`s no problem to work with it and accuracy and lifetime is very high.
Beware from Heym Stainless barrels, it`s very hard to ream a clean chamber.

6150 datasheet

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
They cannot be that hard all the way through.
That is the same hardness as HSS tool bits.

440C stainless for knives is usually only 55RC.

A file is about RC 67

quote:

Originally posted by RyanB:
I read today that Daniel Defense CHF barrels are 65 Rockwell.

I'm not sure I believe it, but I'm impressed.

Saw the figure in print. It was for a CHF and melonited barrel.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
A well known gunmaker told me a couple of years ago that he could cut a Kreiger barrel off with a common bladed hacksaw in just a few strokes...

He said cutting off a Heym barrel was WORK.
He said "You better bring your lunch..."

I have heard the same from people that were installing a threaded muzzle bread on the German barrels I mentioned in my previous post.

Another smith said that most barrels like Krieger,Lilja,hart,Shilen,etc... are soft because they are made mostly for the Benchrest crowd-or have their origins in benchrest shooting.Since BR shooters fire very slowly and use rds that are not very tough on bores,they dont need to be made as hard compared to barrels that were made for machine guns etc...

They are also used with very high intensity cartridges. If I had to guess, it's because of the difficulty of pulling a button or a cutting hook through a truly hard bore.

Melonite ? That's a different story. What makes a Glock and other pistols so durable is that case hardened surface .Yes the surface would be hard but it's a thin layer .Break through that layer and it will be softer.

Normal barrel steel is 28-32 Rc. Melonite will give a 65RC case hardening.
You must know a tough gunsmith and a super hacksaw. I've cut both ends off of many new barrel blanks. I cut mine with a Roll In saw. I'm not going to take the time with a hack saw.

I have found some of the European hammerforged barrels to be noticeably tougher than their American counterparts. A couple of Swiss Arms blanks were definitely tougher to contour and thread. Nice barrels though. Regards, Bill