I know that a short barrel will not produce the same velocity as a longer one, but is the short barrel more accurate?

Less harmonics could be a reason, what are your findings?

You've got it, harmonics. Less barrel whip on a shorter gun and thicker barrel, but less velocity.
Every barrel develops vibrations when it is fired, it is caused by the bullet going into rotation. But a thick short barrel will vibrate less than a long skinny barrel. Thats why you see most 200 yard bench guns with a relativly short barrel, but in 1000yard bench you need a long barrel to provide the needed velocity. So it is simply a matter weighing the consequences and the goal of the rifle.

My most accurate rifle is a 40xbks with a 27-1/2" barrel.The barrel is long but it is also of very heavy contour.All of my other rifles have 26" barrels but will still outshoot many shorter barrelled rifles.

If you are compairing apples to apples (IE: the same conture), the shorter barrel 'might' be more accurate as a rule.
But you can't compare a 18" 'toothpic' to a 26" #5 conture (IE: apples to oranges).

There are so many variables that affect accuracy that it would be difficult to test this. Because of the tremedous number of factors (shall we start a list? - vibration pattern, quality of crown, amount of freebore, quality of barrel material, quality of barrel boring, type of bullet, quality control of bullets, bedding of action, bedding of barrel, alignment of action and barrel, stability of sight mounts, atmospheric conditions, powder combustion, primer type and quality, human error, . . . . [everyone else can chime in at this point]. To conduct an experiment that would test this would require that EVERY SINGLE VARIABLE other than the one being tested - barrel length - be absolutely identical. Good luck on that one.

I have no doubt that the study could be done, but it would involve a lot of work, and I haven't heard of anyone that took the challenge, although it's interesting to think about how it could be accomplished. You can't even cut the barrel on an existing gun that's been previously tested and realistically compare that with the identical ammunition, because you've changed the crown and probably the vibration pattern, and any change in accuracy could be attributed to those factors instead. So, we're left with beliefs and inclinations based on everyone's experience.

In some instances when you shorten a barrel it will indeed by more accurate simply stated when shortened it becomes stiffer and larger in diameter....but not always...and lots of long barrels will shoot little bitty groups.

Too many variables within the barrel itself to ever test conclusively IMHO. Each barrel is different, no matter if they were made one after the other and no two shoot alike. It's been narrowed down to the top MFGs though, this is like trying to say which is better, Hart, Lilja etc. If you used the same setup on the same machine with the same smith and the same reciever, changing only the bbl on each test what would that tell you?

You could see a trend maybe, but would each bbl like the same load?

Would each bbl like the same load at different lengths?

How would you even compare different lengths if they didn't?

Theory is one thing but, what make some variables affect how a gun groups is quite a mystery still. Proving some of these things and saying all other variables have been isolated and removed is probably as close to impossible or impossible as it will ever get.

Pick the length you want. "Wind" will kill you if speed and BC aren't both high as you can get them at long range, and shooting in the ones is much less important. When close, and wind is less an issue, shooting in the ones matters more than wind ever does most the time.

The reason for my post is weight reduction. I ordered a 24 in. barrel. It actually measures closer to 26in. As the project has come close to completion, it still weighs in a couple ounces over 10lbs.
Like I mentioned in previous post, I am aware it will get slower as it gets shorter.
What I am looking for is some honest opinions for this scenario...
Thanks...

If you assume that a barrel flexes, and that this influences accuracy, I think you CAN prove that shortening and/or increasing the outside diameter of a barrel will enhance inherent accuracy, because it increases the stiffness and will therefore have less movement. Dan Lilja designed a computer program to calculate the stiffness of a rifle barrel, and wrote a very good article on the subject:

http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/barrel_making/rigidity_benchrest_rifles.htm

Regards, Bill

Thanks, Bill M. that is a good article....

Thanks Matt, and you're welcome Mauserkid!

Dan wrote an excellent article and I just happen to agree with him....

Regards, Bill

I actually did this late last year. While such a trial can never be all inclusive, I think my execise proved the point (which I will admit, I expected).

I wanted a 22 BR rifle. Purchased an older 22 Anschutz full blown target rifle (1413 I believe) and bedded it in a McMillan benchrest stock. The gun was too heavy to make class anyway and I was considering a new Lilja barrel, so I decided to experiment. I did all these tests with about 10 types of high quality match ammo (consistent lots throughout). I crowned the original 27" barrel and shot the different ammo until I obtained the minimum groups. I then successively shortened and recrowned the barrel by about 2-1/2 inches. The barrel was not removed from the reciever for this. After each shortening, I shot the various ammo types for best groups. I did this for a total of five barrel lengths. In no instance did the best group get worse. In every instance, the best ammo was different. The net improvement from the 27" barrel to the final 17" length was a reduction in group size from 0.4" to about 0.24". These are 50 yd groups, 24x scope and shot indoors out of the wind and sun. In my mind, this proved the theory that has been held for years that, for a given barrel diameter, the shorter the more accurate.

I ended up settling on 17", since this made weight and allowed enough length to set back and rechamber if the throat ever becomes shotout.

Now this is the type of info I was hoping for...

quote:

---

I have a Remington VLS in 223, and an XP100 in the same caliber. I took factory Remington ammo and chronographed both of them. After 20 rounds each, the difference between the two over that average was less than 80FPS! Now, the XP100 has a 14inch barrel, and my VLS has a 26" barrel.

---

Again, thank you Bill, and now Thank you triggerguard1 Have to add a thank you to Art S.

Any one else?

Mauserkid....

[ 05-07-2003, 23:08: Message edited by: Mauserkid ]

I believe it was John Barsness that wrote an article in Rifle magazine several years ago discussing his experience with shortening barrels. He claimed shortening a barrel usually improved accuracy.

Anybody intending to shorten a barrel should go to precisionshooting.com and read the article there about the subject. The gist of it is to find the smallest and roundest place in the bore and cut to that point for the best accuracy. Methods to achieve that are discussed also.

As far as velocity goes, if you take a look at any ballistics chart you will find that it takes a big change in velocity to make any significant change in trajectory. 50 or 100 FPS is almost negligible.

In general I completely agree that shortening a barrel usually results in improved accuray. Most of my really accurate rifles have relatively short heavy barrels that burn all the powder in the case well before the muzzel. My most accurate rifle is a 6mmPPC built on a Stolle Panda with a 20 inch long ,1.3 inch diameter straight ( non-fluted) lilja barrel. It will shoot in the .2's at 200 yrds if I do my part!-Rob

An article in the April "Precision Shooting" magazine by renowned .22 BR gunsmith Bill Calfee touched on this subject. And he has found that what is most important is crowning the barrel at a tight spot in the bore. He lead slugs the bores of the guns he builds and crowns them at the tight spot closest to the end of the barrel. He says that he has found that even the best custom hand lapped barrels have tight and loose spots. He has stated that when people cut back their barrels and they suddenly shoot better that they have found the tight spot by trial and error.

For .22 BR rifles, he likes to use as long a barrel as he can, but sometimes he has to remove as much as 6" off a barrel to find the tight spot. For his .22 BR guns he puts barrel tuners on them and has found that they work best on barrels of about .850" diameter, I think. In the .22 game we usually want the bullet to be subsonic all the way to the target and so a longer barrel adds drag to the bullet and can help assure that ammo close to supersonic speed comes out the muzzle subsonic.

For barrels without tuners, shorter and thicker means stiffer and more predictable harmonics. Barrels that are going to have tuners on them, the tuner will work better on a less stiff barrel.

Ever wonder why the steps were put in the Mauser bbls?

Wstrnhuntr, Strength to weight ratio, and believed to reduce some vibrations if I remember correctly..
Oh, most importantly, manufacturing purposes, much faster to build....
Any way that would be my guess...

Thanks�