A friend in India has a Mannlicher Schonauer rifle with a shot out barrel which he is willing to almost give away. If I were to buy it, would I be able to get a custom rifle made on the action? The rifle is registered in India and under Indian law, it could be taken out of the country for repair and enhancement and brought back - something that I am thinking about. It is a 7x57 and I would have to retain the calibre so that it could go back to India - that is the law.

I would appreciate advice on whether it would be worth buying for this purpose and on approximately how much I might have to spend on getting it rebarreled and probably restocked. Also, would it be better to go through the paperwork and regulations and bring it here to be worked on and shipped back or would it be better to take it to Europe?

Thanks in advance for all advice and suggestions. Good hunting!

quote:

Originally posted by mehulkamdar:
A friend in India has a Mannlicher Schonauer rifle with a shot out barrel which he is willing to almost give away. If I were to buy it, would I be able to get a custom rifle made on the action? The rifle is registered in India and under Indian law, it could be taken out of the country for repair and enhancement and brought back - something that I am thinking about. It is a 7x57 and I would have to retain the calibre so that it could go back to India - that is the law.

I would appreciate advice on whether it would be worth buying for this purpose and on approximately how much I might have to spend on getting it rebarreled and probably restocked. Also, would it be better to go through the paperwork and regulations and bring it here to be worked on and shipped back or would it be better to take it to Europe?

Thanks in advance for all advice and suggestions. Good hunting!

The MS is a lovely rifle and if your friend is almost giving it to you why would you want to offend him by refusing, grab it with both hands and take it to a competant gunsmith for whatever needs to be done, a new barrel and refinish will give you years of pleasure.

Darwinmauser,

The reason I posted this question is that I have not seen any mention of anyone getting anything done to an M-S rifle. Most people get Mauser rifles built, customised etc, but not Mannlichers. That is why I am looking for some advice from members with experience.

I do want the rifle and am trying to find out whether I could get it rebarreled, and, probably restocked. Yes, they are beautiful rifles and I am sure that with some work, this one would be lovely too.

Thanks and good hunting!

Mehul, I have no experience with Mannlichers but know of no reason why a good smith could not rebarrel, refinish and restock "your" rifle. A friend who is a Mauser collector just purchased a pristine Greek 6.5 Mannlicher off GunBroker that he plans to customize, says he wanted something different with alot of class & character. They are certainly high quality firearms and would be worth the cost & effort.

KurtC might be of help to you, seems like he posts on Mannlichers from time to time.

In my opinion, the guru for this type of custom is a guy named Stephen Nelson. He is a full member of the ACGG and contact info can be found in their website.

http://www.acgg.org/

These action are some of the hardest to restock because of the recoil shoulder is at the rear of the magazine area. The area is long to inlett and keep square. I always charged more for these actions. The action require a special action wrench to fit the front around the front guard screw. The barrel has some problems with the cone and the bolt to fit up. It is not worth the trouble on these old actions to convert to a modern classic. The cam to extract was in the barrel cone if I remember from some 30 years ago.

The breech of these barrels is not what you think.

The barrel has a very carefully milled cam protruding off the rear to act against the Right Hand bolt lug as the primary opening cam.

So this is not a easy rebarrel job. Most gunsmiths would not this untill the barrel is off and then they go OH S%&@#.

Otherwise everything else is straight foreward like most other rifles.

Jim Wisner
Custom Metalsmith

Well, the reason you don't see may Mannlicher Schonauer actions as the base for a custom rifle is that there never were a whole lot of them to begin with. They made at most 3 guns a day in the days from 1903 to World War II. Diechrich Abel of New England Custom Gun, they are in New Hampshire. He will take on the job. But its not going to be cheap. Is it worth the effort? Well a while back Harry Selby had a shot out 318 Westley Richards, Lon Paul did the work, to mill barrel and regulate the sights, I know something of this since Lon borrowed some 318 cases and some woodliegh bullets from me to regulate the sights. It was a very special rifle, Robert Ruark gave it to Harry you see. The question for you is how attached to it are you? Also, how do you know the barrel is shot out? I would bore scope it first and maybe its just fouled. So 8 bucks worht of J+B might get you a real peach.

I own one, a gift from my father-in-law. It was made into a scout rifle by Fred Wells in Arizona, with a stainless barrel added that carries integral scope mounts.

If you can own one, do it. Classy rig and the spool magazine is a real piece of work.

westley richards has one built by dickson of england on there sight right now and it appears to be a new gun also i visited Asprey of london about 10 years ago and all there stalking rifles were biult on MANN S actions i have 2 gibbs built on 1899 steyr - mann actions they are real nice and light sorry i cant post pics i,m not that good with the computer i would say it would make a different project ........paul

that a D.fraser on westleys sight , sorry....paul

I just can't imagine cutting one up. One of the most beautiful well made (not engineered) rifles I've ever had the pleasure to own. I would take the rifle in a heart beat and display it by the finest in my collection.

Mehulkamdar, I know you remember this...M/S Thread because you started it, but just thought I'd include it for the benifit of others who haven't seen it. It's a good read

Terry

Before I could give you a decent response, I would need to know the model, year of manufacture, and what exactly indicates that the barrel is "shot out."

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the replies. Some information about the gun and the reason behind this post:

1. The rifle was made in 1907 and it has been with my friend's family after it came to India. The old ammunition thatw as fired through it has damaged the barrel and accuracy is very poor. The metal and wood finish are in good shape for such an old rifle

2. The reason for this request is that India has banned the import of all except target firearms except for returning aIndians who live abroad and can take one gun each back. This particular rifle is registered in India and as such, it could be taken out of the country for "repairs and enhancement" and taken back. This would also not affect the one gun import permission given to non resident Indians who have lived outside India in case my wife and I decide to return - we could take two more sporting rifles/shotguns back if this happened

3. I have always liked Mannlichers and that is why I thought about getting this rifle done up if it were possible. If it is going to be too much of a headache, then I would just look for a different rifle in India. This is a question to figure out what the complications involved might be

4. Some friends have warned me about the paperwork that might be involved in the US - the Indian government allows you to take a gun out if you apply to Indian Customs as long as it is registered on your license. No one whom I know is aware of US laws in this regard - if it is going to be difficult, I could buy another rifle here and shoot and enjoy it while we are here and let this one remain in India. The reason for thinking about buying it is that it is being offered very cheap and by a friend. Somehow, when friends sell things of value, it is almost an Indian tradition to buy them...

Thank you for all suggestions. I hope to decide whether it is going to be worthwhile doing this once I have some idea of the processes and costs involved. Good hunting, everyone,

Mehul

Based on the above information, the rifle is more valuable as a "parts" gun to restore other pre-1924 Mannlicher-Schoenauers in India.

Erich Schoder

You may want to try contacting Erich Schoder in Austria to see if he can rebuild it, or supply any of the spare parts.

Washougal Chris

Gents;

I do believe that my first instinct in this case would be to have the rifle re-bored, thus saving all of its present outward appearance and avoiding a very touchy and expensive re-barreling and re-stocking.

The magazine spool is VERY precisely contoured to match whatever cartridge the rifle uses, so it's best to stick with a round based on the same case.

If one's a handloader, a .30-7x57 would be an obvious choice, but so would the 8x57. There are no flies on the 8x57, when it comes to hunting! I'd think that only a few hundred dollars would get a reboring done.

My only Mannlicher-Schoenauer is a 1903 (6.5x54, natch) take-down rifle with 24" barrel and spring-loaded tang sight. It's in very fine condition, has a perfect bore, and I marvel all over again every time I handle it. It's the very epitome of "sleek".

An interesting situation, for sure...I hope you tell us what you decide and how it turns out.

I would also recommend Steve Nelson as Kobe mentioned. He is also a active member of the Oregon Mannlicher Schonauer collectors. I have seen a number of this guns he has built and even a combination action he referred to as a Mauser Licker.

I do believe there is an import license now for folks even travelling thru the US with their rifles. Something came up about it a few years ago and got the ire of Canadians that were going thru the US to Africa. I do not think the paperwork is that big a deal but then I am relatively clueless on the regs.

I have bought three of these rifles and one ofthem was slated for a custom, but when it arrived I could not deface it. The gun had a letter from an African Safari Compant in the cleaning rod trap in the buttplate about the Safari the former owner had taken and with that nostalgia it will remain in original condition. I will never part with my MS rifles, eventhough some of them do not see the field very often. They are amazing rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by mehulkamdar:
Gentlemen,

4. Some friends have warned me about the paperwork that might be involved in the US - the Indian government allows you to take a gun out if you apply to Indian Customs as long as it is registered on your license. No one whom I know is aware of US laws in this regard - if it is going to be difficult, I could buy another rifle here and shoot and enjoy it while we are here and let this one remain in India.
Mehul

I have sent rifles to the US for repairs, and essentially went through the same procedure as you'd go through if you were to temporarily import a rifle to the US for hunting, say.

Having obtained the temporary import permit from BATF, I then proceeded to mail the rifle to the States - directly to a registered FFL holder - and included a copy of the license in the parcel, should US Customs decide to investigate.

Strictly speaking, though, if your repairs include a new barrel, you'd be in for an export permit to get it out again. I doubt if anybody would notice, though, if the old barrel was in the same caliber as the new one - as you needed it to be for the Indian paperwork.

The good thing about owning the rifle already, is that it then becomes legal for you to pick up the rifle from your US FFL, and have it in your possession in the States. However, make sure you still have a valid import license should you decide to do this, and that normally means a valid hunting license or an invitation to a shooting event (match or likewise). (If need be re-apply when the rifle is ready).

From the point of view of US paperwork, it should certainly be possible to get the work done.

Here is the link to the BATF page for temporary firearms import. If you have any questions not covered by their FAQ page, call them up. I have found these guys very helpful on the phone. I think the phone number has changed from what is listed on the Internet page, but if you call the old number, you'll get the new one.

- mike

Mehul, I urge you to rebuild that rifle. I also join in recommending Steve Nelson to work on it. His email address is
nelsons-custom@attbi.com
He was or may still be secretary of the gunsmith's guild and knows a lot about Mannlicher Schoenaurs. I have a custom Savage 99 where he did the checkering, very nice, for a stockmaker friend who was very good at shaping stocks but hated to checker.

Gentlemen,

Thank you very much for your suggestions.

Jim Kobe/Chic/Vigillinus,

Thank you for recommending an expert to talk to about this. I shall do so as the earliest as I finalise the purchase of this rifle in India.

Chic,

I was at Mike Scrank's shop on Monday with a friend who is a very big British dealer in fine guns and we spent more than an hour talking to Dave there. Dave showed his new case hardening work which amazed my friend - and this is a man who sells rare guns worth tens of thousands of Pounds Sterling.

Thank you very much for everything,

Mehul Kamdar
Times ago I had a MSch 1903 (ex-6.5x54) with new barrel in .243 Win.
Work of an Argentine gunsmith.
Excellent rifle.
Hector