I will need a barrel vise if I'm going to rechamber rifles.

I've been looking in catalogs, in the books I have available, and there are lots of different approaches out there.

I didn't see one that made a lot of sense to me till I looked at the one in Hinnat's book (which arrived a couple of days ago). His, and as it turns out, Brownell's expensive one, have a really heavy base bar and clamp bar which seems to be common to all the candidates.

Hinnat's bars are 2" x 3". Don't know what size they are on the Brownell's version, but in pictures they look at least an inch think.

Hinnant's vise has a pair of steel inserts made of substantial chunks of metal with 1-1/2" diameter hole segments in them - the hole segments form a circle with some unspecified clearance between the chunks of metal. Brownell's looks similar, and they sell blanks and completed aluminum bushings to go in the hole, Hinnat (sp?) machines his own, as I would.

I like the idea of aluminum inserts machined to be a reasonable match for the taper of the barrel at the location where it will be clamped. A guy could get a few feet of 1-1/2" aluminum rod and have a life time supply of vise bushings just waiting to be liberated. With all that pressure (I haven't figured it out but I'd think it is upwards of 10 tons of pressure per bolt with 5/8" bolts torqued up to max for lubed threads - assuming one had a big enough torque wrench) the aluminum insert ought to deform to match the barrel nicely and get good traction with out blemishing it. I'd probably just take a 1/2" breaker bar and reef on the nuts till I couldn't turn them anymore and call it good.

I'd lube the threads and thrust surface under the nuts to get as much pressure as I could - not much chance of over torqueing such a bolt with 66 year old muscles unless I use a really long pipe. Probably rip the vise off the bench
before the bolts broke.

Brownells has 4 clamp bolts on theirs, Hinnat has two 1-1/4 - 7 tpi studs and nuts. 1-1/4" studs. Yikes. Hinnat says if 4 are used, to use 5/8" studs. Hinnat recommends coarse threads, I might go for fine threads. I like more smaller bolts - it takes less tightening torque to get the same force as one bigger bolt.

I'm speculating that the reason for the big bolts and force is to make sure the vise exerts enough force to make the inserts deform to hug the barrel.

I also saw one in a catalog, Might have been Brownell's or Midway's catalog, that had a hydraulic jack of 20 tons to apply the pressure. I'd prefer studs and nuts. Easier to make, smaller to store.

It is pretty clear that regardless of design, vises need to be bolted to something pretty substantial if they are to resist the torque it looks like they resist.

There are lots of other versions in catalogs. Some have a pair of aluminum chunks under aluminum clamp bars with just a "V" cut in them to be universal jaws. I'm not liking the aluminum vise base and clamp bar concept. When I see 2" x 3" clamp bars in the book, I'm thinking they need to be pretty strong. I had been thinking of something like 1" x 3" bar stock for the bars with 1-1/2" x 2" inserts into which the removable bushings would fit. I have a 19" long piece of 1" x 3" bar stock which would make the clamp bars for a vise with some left over for the next project.

So, my question to those of you who have and use them, is 1" x 3" bar enough section to make the base bar and the clamp bar for a practical barrel vise?

I'd be planning on using 4 5/8" studs with nuts to do the actual clamping. I'd make up the steel pieces that accept the aluminum inserts from some 1-1/2" x 2" stock.

Fitch

This is the set up I've been using for 30 years.
I use steel bushings and delrin.

The first photo is staged so one can see the set up. I actually clamp onto the barrel as close to the receiver as possible.

Thanks for the pictures.

I'm beginning to think, looking at other pictures, that a barrel vise has to be a "really" substantial gadget. I saw a thread with one mounted to the top of an I-beam.

I have a piece of 4" square x 1/2" wall steel tube I might be able to use, with suitable flanges, bolted to the floor as a support post. My shop has a 6" thick floor.

Fitch

quote:

I'm beginning to think that a barrel vise has to be a "really" substantial gadget.

Mine is as strong as the one posted by Westpac. Idon't remember any that were built less strong that survived very long.

Most of the ones I've seen are extremely beefy like this.

Here's the set up I made. I made the vice years ago and just did the action wrench a few weeks ago. I sized it the same as brownell so I could use their bushings is I didn't feel like making my own. Same thing with the action wrench brownells heads will fit.
-Don

Don,

Might you be kind enough to send me the critical dimensions of vise and wrench?

(Vise ... l, w, h of the pieces and the diameter of the bushing bore. How much space is provided for squeeze between the plates?)

(Wrench ... l, w, h of the pieces and the bore used for the receiver top. Also the dimensions of the recess for the recoil lug.)

Did you make it out of hot rolled A-36?

Do you use steel or aluminum inserts in the barrel vise? When you made the insert how thick a saw did you use to split the inserts? Do you use lead shims or rosin with setup?

I'd REALLY appreciate the information. Thank you! Thank you!

Don,

What are the dimensions of the top and bottom blocks in the barrel vise? I think I read someplace that the Brownell's bushings are 1-3/4" OD. Based on that, I'm estimating the bottom one is ~1-1/4" thick, the top ~1-1/2" thick, maybe 3" front to back. Is that close?

Half inch clamp bolts?

Thanks
Fitch

Sounds close I'd have to measure it, I wish I would have made the bottom a little thicker but that's the free stock I had at the time. It will flex a little if you over tighten it. I need to put a steel block under it to compensate for it. 1/2-20 clamp bolts. Bushing are 1.75" I bought a 6' piece of alumimun bar that should last me a while.
-Don

Thanks Don.

I'll be out and about Monday looking for a foot or so of 3" bar 1-1/2 to 2" thick. I have some 1" x 3" bar that might make an action wrench like yours. I'll set it aside for that project.

I have a 1/2-20 tap (used 1/2-20 home made bolts in my spindle outboard Cat-Head). I'd think 4 Gr.8 bolts would give a bunch of clamping pressure.

I'd have to agree, 6' of bushing material ought to be close to a life time supply.

Thanks again.
Fitch

Brownell's gives the dimensions of the top piece of the barrel vise as 1 1/2" thick x 4 1/2" long x 3" wide. The bottom piece is listed as 7" long x 3" wide x 1 1/8" thick.

They give no dimensions on the pieces of the action wrench.

Don,

When you made the vise, did you vise the two blocks together and bore the hole? Did you then cut some off of one of the pieces to provide some "crush" on the bushing? If so, how much?

Thanks!

I make barrel vises out of lengths of 2x2" steel and 1.5" Aluminum round stock for the bushings.

I have been using 1/2-13 thread, but I have started using 7/8-14.

That is easy.

Now find a 350 pound bench to mount the vise.

quote:

Originally posted by mstarling:

Don,

When you made the vise, did you vise the two blocks together and bore the hole? Did you then cut some off of one of the pieces to provide some "crush" on the bushing? If so, how much?

Thanks!

Mike I cut each piece seperately, at different times too as it was before I had a mill and borrowed one at a test lab we do work for. I just nibbled away at it with a boring head after I rough milled it will an 1-1/4" ball mill they had laying around. I can't remember the the spacing I left but I could drop in an uncut bushing and measure it up if for like.
-Don

Don,

What size blocks and bolts did you use for the wrench?

Would appreciate any information you might remember or measure on the fit of the bushing.

I have a big Aloris boring/facing head and access to a surface grinder so should be able to get things pretty close.

Need to make one so I can pull several Mausers apart for rust bluing ... so how to hold them without marring the surfaces is important to me.

Thanks again,

Mike, I'll measure it up today. As to not marring the surface, if it's tight and can't slip it won't if the surface is smooth.
-Don

This is the setup I use. My first choice of material for blocks is canvas phenolic and second choice is wood, oak or laminate. I sprinkle a little rosin on the blocks if I think it's goint to be a bugger. I've never scratched a barrel with it. For those of you in northern climes this may not be ideal for you but for sunny Nuevo Mexico it works well.

This is a great thread, what I've gotten used to on this forum.

-If you will indulge me:

Westpac: what is that little hook for on the left-most wrench in your second photo?

And, you must be far more coordinated than I am** to side-load a barrel into your vise (the advantages of how it is mounted are noted )

**that ain't sayin' much.

Don Markey: is that "98" or "86" on those bushings?

John: that looks like a direct answer to what would be to me a lot of second-guessing and head-scratching; a straight-forward solution. The gravel reminds me of a dirt-floor forge I worked in when I was a kid.

If I were to make a vise, it would be like John's, due to my experience fabbing steel, and lack of machining practice- which John of course does not lack as per his beautiful work we've all seen.

John, that would work just fine for us in the north too. We seldom get more than 2 feet of snow here at that looks higher than that .
-Don

quote:

Originally posted by Toomany Tools:
This is the setup I use. My first choice of material for blocks is canvas phenolic and second choice is wood, oak or laminate. I sprinkle a little rosin on the blocks if I think it's goint to be a bugger. I've never scratched a barrel with it. For those of you in northern climes this may not be ideal for you but for sunny Nuevo Mexico it works well.

The canvas phenolic is an excellent material for this application. It is similar to G-10 circuit board material except the reinforcement for the epoxy is canvas instead of fiberglass.

quote:

The canvas phenolic is an excellent material for this application. It is similar to G-10 circuit board material except the reinforcement for the epoxy is canvas instead of fiberglass.

Where can it be found thick enough? IIRC, I searched for some at McMaster, and it was too thin, and expensive.

Thanks.

quote:

John, that would work just fine for us in the north too. We seldom get more than 2 feet of snow here at that looks higher than that Big Grin.
-Don

I grew up o the pristine shore of Lake Erie, and have lived on the east coast for the last 30 years. If you get a quarter inch of snow from here to South Carolina, they close the schools. When I was a kid, if I didn't get dressed fast enough in the morning, I got booted out the front door into a drift, ready or not.

I have been 'plotting' a device, which has an integral receiver/barrel clamping arrangement. The idea is that the barrelled action gets clamped and the torque is to be applied by a screw, using a wrench. This would mean that no heavy bench mounting would be required and the device would be reasonably small, but beefy. Mine is to be for one action only but the barrel clamp will still need bushes. The ideas in this thread are helping me too.

quote:

Originally posted by tin can:
-If you will indulge me:

Westpac: what is that little hook for on the left-most wrench in your second photo?

And, you must be far more coordinated than I am** to side-load a barrel into your vise (the advantages of how it is mounted are noted )

That little hook fits inside the 700 receiver.

Side loading is a breeze, but you have to do it without the wrench attached.

quote:

Originally posted by tin can:

quote:

The canvas phenolic is an excellent material for this application. It is similar to G-10 circuit board material except the reinforcement for the epoxy is canvas instead of fiberglass.

Where can it be found thick enough? IIRC, I searched for some at McMaster, and it was too thin, and expensive.

Thanks.

quote:

John, that would work just fine for us in the north too. We seldom get more than 2 feet of snow here at that looks higher than that Big Grin.
-Don

I grew up o the pristine shore of Lake Erie, and have lived on the east coast for the last 30 years. If you get a quarter inch of snow from here to South Carolina, they close the schools. When I was a kid, if I didn't get dressed fast enough in the morning, I got booted out the front door into a drift, ready or not.

TinCan,
You would have to look for canvas phenolic at an industrial plastic distributor. And it is relatively expensive. You might try to buy their odd lots or drop off.
My plastics catalogs are at work. Right now all I can think of that have reasonable on line prices are Professional Plastics.
There is also
Port Plastics (no prices)
Westlake Plastics
Accurate Plastics
Boedeker Plastics
K-Mac Plastics (prices I think)
Interstate Plastics (prices I think)
Cadillac Plastics
AIN Plastics

You are looking for epoxy or phenolic laminates
with canvas reinforcement.

quote:

Originally posted by mstarling:
Don,

What size blocks and bolts did you use for the wrench?

Would appreciate any information you might remember or measure on the fit of the bushing.

I have a big Aloris boring/facing head and access to a surface grinder so should be able to get things pretty close.

Need to make one so I can pull several Mausers apart for rust bluing ... so how to hold them without marring the surfaces is important to me.

Thanks again,

1.25 x 2.00 x 4.50 screw spacing needs to be 3-1/8" center for brownells heads to work.
-Don

westpac & elathe, thank you.

This is what mine looks like, my son made the basic block, with dimensions I gave him, in a High School shop class.

It is 4 x4 x2" blocks, 2 each and bored 1 1/2" with 1/8" spacer between when boring it. The cap screws are 1/2-20 allen head. The whole affair sits on top of a 4x4 H beam bolted to the floor.

Thje action wrench fits most round body actions particularly like the Rem 700. I also made this one and it has an integral block that fits the recoil lug and positons it in place.

I like the beam, Jim. Could be just the ticket to solve the flexing problem with mine.
-Don

Don,

Thanks!

What size bolt holes do Brownell's heads expect?

Thanks,

quote:

Originally posted by mstarling:
Don,

Thanks!

What size bolt holes do Brownell's heads expect?

Thanks,

Brownell's are 1/2-20 Here's a link to the dimensions.
-Don
http://www272.pair.com/stevewag/avise/avise.html

I use one set of aluminum bushings for the barrel, bored oversize. I just place enough electrical tape around the barrel to seal the bushings on the bottom with the action horizontal (barrel up) and fill the bushing with 5 min. epoxy. Knock the bushing off and split it on the bandsaw and it works fine. When done the epoxy peals right out and is ready for a second use. Oops, forgot, after initially splitting the bushing the first time I place 1/16 shims between the sides and tape up the split on each inside to keep the epoxy from running out. This way you can perfectly match any contour with the same bushings. The epoxy grips the barrel well enough that I haven't needed rosin yet. Don't forget to use release agent on the barrel before adding the epoxy. God Bless, Louis

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:
Now find a 350 pound bench to mount the vise.

I'm thinking of making an insert to fit in or bolt onto the 3" x 3" x 1/4" wall tubing that my lathe stand is made from. That would give me an 1,100 lb vise base!

Fitch

That certainly would give you a heavy base; however, I personally won't be shaking my lathe around, possibly throwing it off level for any reason. Remember, when you use a handle on your action wrench you have a tremendous mechanical advantage and you'll quite easily be able move 1,100 pounds enough to throw it off level.

Come on folks, mine is attached to a workbench... Which is attached to a house.

quote:

Originally posted by Westpac:
Come on folks, mine is attached to a workbench... Which is attached to a house.

As an amateur, I don't know that I'd go for that large an investment.

I had some success today - found two places with drop racks. At one of them I picked up a piece of 1-1/2 x 2-1/2 x 2' bar stock that looks like it will make nice vise parts and a special holder for my BXA tool post. They also had a nice pice of 1" x 2" bar 4' long that looked like it might have some action wrench parts hidden inside it, so I brought that home as well.

At the other I picked up 3' of 1-1/2" aluminum rod.

A good day. A good day indeed.

The good input/caution about the lathe stand is noted. As soon as I read it I knew bolting it to the lathe stand wasn't a good idea.

The first drop rack has some 6" I-beam on the rack - I think they have a piece about 3-1/2' long. They also had a piece of 6" square steel tube with 1/2" wall. I could weld steel plates on each end of either piece with the bottom plate drilled for concrete anchors, the top drilled to match the vise, and have a vise post. They have lots of steel plate pieces as well.

If I'd known I was going to do this when the shop was built, I could have had a 6"x6" block bolted to one of the posts for my pole barn shop and lagged the vise to that, or had a special footing poured to bolt the I-beam post to.

I sure appreciate all the good information that showed up in this thread.

Thanks!
Fitch

Fitch,
I don't do a lot of re-barreling but when I had need for a vice I made mine using a cheap hydraulic bottle jack from WalMart. Have photos somewhere but I'll try to explain for now.
Base is a piece of steel about 12 inches long. Two 5/8 inch threaded rods about 12 inches long connect it to the top steel bar. The barrel blocks fit between the base of the jack and the steel base plate. The threaded rods are then adjusted to take up slack then pressure is applied by the jack. Basicly it's a compact hydraulic press. In my small crowded shop it can be clamped in the bench vise on the rare ocassions when I need it and stored away at other times.
It ain't pretty and may not be the best but it is cheap, convenient and can apply 1 1/2 tons of clamping pressure instantly and release it just as quick.

I thought since you folks were so helpful I'd drop the other foot and post a picture of the completed barrel vise that resulted from your input. It's shown here with a blank bushing (cut from 1-1/2" 6061T6 rod). The bushing may be "aircraft aluminum" but one would be well advised not to drop the rest of the vise on one's foot.



It was suggested that I find a place to bolt it. I think it is sittin on it. The mill weighs more than a ton, and it isn't fussy, so bolting it to the mill table with a couple of T-nuts and bolts ought to hold it nice and solid.

While I was out in the shop, I was having so much fun I also made this aluminum piece to clamp to the tail stock ram for the dial indicator to measure ram travel.



If you look closely you will see that I had to mill a bit off the top of the MightyMaG so that the dial indicator piston would be horizontal and not pointed down slightly.

Together with the Cat-Head, posted previously, I'm making progress on the tooling for my winter rebarreling skill development project.

Thanks again for the good input.
Fitch

Nice piece of equipment.

You're a "doer", unlike me, who's a talker

Looks great! I have a minimag I need to mill the same way if I ever get around to it. I wouldn't peronally want to mount it on my mill though and risk knocking it out of level.
-Don

I don't understand why some of the vise's have 4 bolts. Because of the short cylinder length on many barrels, the 2 bolts that are away from the action wouldn't be doing any clamping. Unless the bushing was fitted to the contour of the barrel. Then clamping there would squirt the barrel out of the vise. Does anyone who has 4 bolts use all 4? Or, just the 2 next to the action?

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:
I don't understand why some of the vise's have 4 bolts. Because of the short cylinder length on many barrels, the 2 bolts that are away from the action wouldn't be doing any clamping. Unless the bushing was fitted to the contour of the barrel. Then clamping there would squirt the barrel out of the vise. Does anyone who has 4 bolts use all 4? Or, just the 2 next to the action?

Good question. I haven't used mine yet so I can't answer for sure. I am planning to contour the inside at least some to get more gripping surface on the barrel. Having 4 bolts, one can always use only two if that seems to be the right thing to do for the barrel in question. OTOH, if one only has two and needs more ...

Torqued to 90 ft-lbs each bolt should have ~10,800 lbs of tension. That turns the vise into a 20 ton press.

Fitch