When you posted this:

"What is a called flier? Is that like a Mulligan? They way I understand it, you shoot a bad group, it is just a bad group."

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I notice it kinda got ignored.

Just to get a few brain and emotional juices circulating out there for Cinco de Mayo, I think you made one devil of a good point. How does one "call" a flyer?

My understanding is that a "called" shot is when after firing, but before looking at the target, one predicts where the bullet hit, because that is where one was holding when the trigger "broke".

A "flier", OTH, is a shot which did NOT go where expected (predicted), due to something beyond the shooter's control....like wind, a light change, load inconsistency, or some such.

So, I agree with you. How does a person predict where/when something unpredictable is going to happen? By definition, predicting the unpredictable ain't possible.

It IS possible, though, for one to recognize when they have just fired a poorly controlled shot. If one follows that to a logical conclusion, don't all "called fliers" really amount to called bad shots? That's something different from a "flyer, and it is an important difference when learning to shoot very well, whether with rifles, pistols, or field artillery.

Donning nomex suit.......awaiting other eye-opening explanations.

AC, I believe that is a very astute observation!
Butch

A "called flier" is a bad shot.

A called flier is bad shot for which the rifle should not be blamed, otherwise why mention it. It has no effect on the size of the group, so, if a shoot a 1/2 inch group with one called flier it is still a 1/2 inch group. Technically, I could shoot a 5 shot 1/2 inch group with 3 called fliers! The gun writers started this BS. If I have a promising load, then integrity should warrant that I shoot the group all over again. If I am still calling fliers in those groups, then I have another problem: trigger, shooter or, gulp, maybe the rifle is just not shooting as well as I think it does.The problem is that we do not seem to shoot groups for ourselves, but rather for others!
Peter.

Can you do this during benchrest competition? Are there any world record groups that have called fliers in them?

Or, is it kind of like when you tell your wife that you were trying to hit the toilet early in the morning but you knew that you couldn't bend it any more and kind of missed your target

James, I haven't had any trouble bending mine in years. I miss it for other reasons.
By the way, got an email from Dan Lilja. My barrel was supposed to ship today.
I will give you 2 examples of called fliers. Last year at the Arkansas State BR championship my Grandson was in 3rd place. This was the second day and it was the 15th target. His first 4 shots later measured .174. He had been bitching about the trigger giving him trouble. I said we would clean it later. He closed the bolt on the last shot and it went off and it was 1.330" away from the group. He had been averaging .200MOA until that point. The other time was in New Braunfels and I was in 1st place going into the last target. The first 4 were in a .153. I got anxious and got my shoulder into the buttstock just as I touched off the round. It went straight down for a .911 group.It took us both to the outhouse. We just call them bad groups, nothing else.
Butch

Butch, the gest of the post was about the guy's rifle and it's accuracy not his ability to shoot it. I think the term "flyer" was used to save words. Short for "It would have been a very good group if I wouldn't have messed it up." I knew what you were talking about in the post and was only picking at you. I hope you saw it in good humor.


Terry

Terry,
Not a problem, don't give it a second thought.
Butch

Personally, I think seven (7) angels can dance on the head of a pin. No mas.

The biggest problem with having an accuracy guarantee is having no way to tighten the loose nut behind the trigger. Some people shoot fliers most of the time. Then blame the smith for building junk. They are usually the first to flame and the last to accept any blame. Haven't had any loose nuts as clients and hope I can keep it this way!

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:
Haven't had any loose nuts as clients and hope I can keep it this way!

Don't open your business to the "walk in", "drop by" public. Do like I do and keep it "by referrals only" and you can control the weeds.

I've had alot of called flyers!-------Or were they just bad shots? Maybe bad flyers.