Here is a way for some of you to get started without spending a ton of money for equipment. If you have a couple of mausers or some other actions to make into hunting rifles, the small lathes will be able to thread and chamber the lighter barrels. The #1 or #2 contours can be used by extending them through the headstock. One thing that I did was to reamer the headstock out to 13/16 inch. I made a four screw jaw chuck in order to place the barrel into the headstock as far as possible. The inside diameter is 1 1/4 in. for the hole. The spider made for the left end of the headstock is threaded to screw onto the mandrel in place of one of the lock nuts. These small lathes are not too stiff, but can be used with caution. It took me about four hours to fit and chamber a barrel. The first project was to fit and chamber a 17 Rem. #1 Dougles to a Mini Mauser on a 7 X 10 HF lathe. This is really close, but was able to cut a good chamber. Test results on the range without working up a load is about � in. groups. The next project was a 6mm Rem. #2 Dougles on a Mk X Mauser. I used a Grizzly 7 X 12 lathe which has enough space to work without being cramped with the longer reamer. All of these projects has to be dialed in on both ends. These are my own rifles for hunting and being retired allows me to play with these small machines. I have owned Sheldons, Logans, and South Bend lathes, but not everyone has extra funds for the more expensive tools. There are several suppliers selling these small machines. The prices range from $300 to $500.
Use caution and care if using any of these machines. Use at your own RISK!!!!

Metal chips on a Grizzly lathe!
Mine will only cut plastic, becuase the tool post is not stiff.
So I don't use the tool post with that lathe.

I put a wire wheel on a spindle and put that in the chuck.
And I put a drill chuck in the tailstock and the work in the 3 jaw lathe chuck and drill on center.

I CAN make metal with the tool post, if I mount a Dremel tool on it. With that spinning and the work spinning, the tool force gets low enough to cut metal.

I question your use of holding the reamer with a drill chuck in the tailstock. This is not good practice for good chambering. Just a thought.....

This project was not to see if you can make the perfect barrel job, but to find out whether the lathe would hold to a tolerance good enough for a hunting rifle. The chamber is perfect on dimensions. I have cut at least 100 plus barrels in my life time. I have a floating reamer holder, but chose not to use it on this project. The first thing that must be done is to make sure that the allignment of the tailstock to the headstock is perfect. There are people that believe that you must have a name brand lathe. If you have worked in the different shops around you will find that most have lathes built during WW 11. It is not the machine as much as the person standing there twisting the handles. These small lathes cannot be rushed to cut or thread a barrel. As for not making metal chips, this is the operater not knowing how to sharpen the lathe bits as Clark mentioned. There is more than one way to do most jobs. Trade secrets of how certain people would do
gun work was what drove me to learn as much as possible in this field. My learning started 49 years ago when I had a Japenese 6.5 that I wanted to get made into a sporter hunting rifle. So if you have some secret way of doing your work just put it out for all to hear. Just my thoughts after a night of firecracker popping that kept me up late into the morning hours.

A Grumpy of Gunsmith

Les,
Thanks for posting this. Do you find the variable speed on these lathes any advantage given their size? This of course being the unique feature on these 7x10, 7x12 or 7x15 SEIG lathes. The 9x21 class lathes (with a few exceptions) don't have this feature or the reverse - at least this is my understanding. Probably a stiffer machine due to the larger castings.

Jeff P

Jeff P,
I am sure that the 9 X 20 would be much stiffer. All of these small machines are weak on the motors, but they are for hobbyist or tinkers. I made a set of threading gears for a 9 X20 South Bend years ago by turning the correct diameter for the gear and marking the layout of the teeth with a pointed divider after dividing the number of teeth into 360 degrees. There is references on gear making in the machinest hand book. I hand filed each tooth of the gears. If you can file correctly it can be done and it will cut very good threads. I guess I should have been around when the first lathes were made by using trees as springs to drive the spindle made of wood also. Ha Ha

Interesting! Reaming the head stock spindle bore. That may fix your problem Clark, in that you tool post may become stiffer than the now less stiff head stock spindle. (does that make any sense )

I think for the little stuff I will stay with my 6" X 18" Atlas and the little 76mm swing Unimat lathe / vertical mill.

ASS_CLOWN

AC, what your saying is the weak link in the stiffness chain goes somewhere else, possibly more expensive.. That's why you should be very leery of big ujoints on muscle cars - instead of the 20 dollar ujoint breaking, You crack a tranny shaft or snap the bolts on the flywheel, etc. I would recommend anyone who has a "small" lathe (I define small as anything weighing less than a toyota) to remotor them with the biggest electric motor they can fit in the cabinet. It makes a huge difference in those heavy cuts. I would apply this to every power tool such as bandsaws drillpresses, etc. The machines just do such a better job when they have adaquete power and are not on the verge of stalling. I intend to do this to my Clausing when I get around to setting it up.

Toolmaker

AC,
No, stiffness is not a relativity proplem with making cuts.
It is the TOTAL compliance of the work/tool that makes the positive feed back that jams the cut.

Many persons have been sharing a reamer to open the through hole of mini lathes, so a barrel will fit. That sort of started with Varmint Al, and you can read about it.

My Grizzly was so poorly made, that the gib did not fill the gap. The whole carridge can pop off.

Enco and Jet generally make good products, but I have never been satisfied with ANYTHING that I got over the past 20 years from Grizzly. That is not to say I did not get SOME use, just alot less than expected.

Clark,

I think I understand now!

I have used Nardini lathes which are almost as bad as your Grizzly. They use scrawny spindles, small head stock bearing, a long overhang for the chuck, and a cross slide/carriage that is as light as my little 6" swing Atlas'. Put all that together and you have a 12" swing machine (the Nardini that is) that cannot cut deeper than 0.03" on a 1" diameter piece of 1020 steel! My Atlas will easily take of 3.5 times that much.

It has been my experience that all of these import lathes and relatively light machines. They can ony handle light cuts, they don't hold good size, and are prone to cutting tapers, particularly as tools wear. In short, they ALL suck.

ASS_CLOWN

chamber reamer in a drill chuck...

take a guy that has 40+ years gunsmithing and machining, have him align the tailstock

then it's just s perfect as *I* can get with a floating reamer holder.


You guys gotta remember, Les aint a johnny come lately... I Think he could out turn me if he was on a harbour frieght 9x20 (all of these come out of the same factory, just diff minimum specs) and I was on a monarch

Here is a good resource for checking out the various mini-lathes available and getting the most out of them mini-lathe.com.

jeffe,

Monarch can cut like shit too. After 40+ years their gibbs and ways can wear.

The biggest problem with a Monarch is financing the shipping to your shop the 10,000+ lb Goliath!! They are the cat's meow though. Americans are another good engine lathe.

ASS_CLOWN

I've been thinking about getting one of the 7X12's for some time. I have a Taig lathe, which works well enough for what it is, but the lack of thread cutting, and the small capacity is very limiting. I've looked at the 9X20's for years, and as all know, they simply aren't rigid enough to handle the size of work they can hold.

Opening up the headstock on the 7X12 sounds like the answer for a small affordable lathe that can do occasional chamber jobs. It'll be the perfect tool for pistol jobs. The one question I have is where can you get a 1/2 a decent 4 jaw chuck for the lathe w/o spending as much as the cost of the lathe?

I've had good results with Grizzly, my drill press works very well for the cost of the machine. The crossing vise I ordered was damaged when delivered, and they shipped me a new one, which cost $80 to mail, for a $110 item. Considering they shipped the broken one both ways, they definately lost money on that deal. I've found there customer support to be very responsive, something that can't be said of the other budget oriented machine tool dealers. Their Bellingham warehouse is also well located for reasonable shipping to AK. Hmm, I might just have to take advantage of the 7X12 summer sale.

Anything can cut like shit after being abused - of course you can rescrape the ways... Shipping is not that bad mebbe two g's, If you think that's bad you can forget about buying a lathe in that weight class - I know a 80" Victor for sale(real nice too) who's asking something like 8 grand.. (Yes Jeffe, it's Marcus. BTW didja buy a div. head from him?)

Toolmaker
Too

TM,
been playing phone tag with him!! I needs me a dividng head....

80"? nah.. i'ld be tickled with a decent 10EE... mine now will do 40" before passing through the headstock, and I am always under that length!!!

For the shipping.. shesh, guys, you are not being imaginative....

rent a pickup for a week, with unlimited miles (50 bucks a day) a trailor from a boddy (50bucks PLUS pack the galldurn wheels bearings BEFORE you hook it up) and take a couple days' vacation... drive across the country (i can be in seatle or DC in 24 hours with a partner) and pick up your new beauty.....

jeffe

He HAS a 10EE I think... I'm not surprised about the phone tag - lately he's busier than a whore on payday... This week my brother's wiring my building, he's doing the axle seals on his flatbed truck, doing a head gasket on his car, trying to straighten out the mess that is the warehouse, etc, etc, etc. All I can tell ya is keep calling... I'll ask him about it when I talk to him.

Toolmaker

jeffe

Quote:

---

rent a pickup for a week, with unlimited miles (50 bucks a day) a trailor from a boddy (50bucks PLUS pack the galldurn wheels bearings BEFORE you hook it up) and take a couple days' vacation... drive across the country

---

I can tell you have never tried to move a 10,000 to 14,000 pound engine lathe before. I wish it really were that simple. For starters most trailers won't haul that much (unless they are dually tandom or triple 5000 pound axles). You won't get one at the average rental place. Next it isn't that easy to get these lathes on and off of trailers, unless one has a VERY big fork truck. Of course that would require another trailer. Not all machine shops have the capability to load / unload their equipment. Remember one doesn't always purchase used equipment through a broker (who hopefully can assist you in loading up). Finally, those 1500 series pick-ups that the rental places have aren't made to haul 13,000 t0 17,000 pound trailer loads(Gross Combined Weights of 17,500 to 21,500 pounds) that really is the arena of a 3500 series truck.

It really is a challenge and that is what makes it worth doing! That and all the new four letter words you invent in the process.

Toolmaker,

Not necessarily abuse, but wear. I have seen lathes with ways worn down 0.2" over a portion of the bed, simply from repetitive motion of the carriage (45 years of making money). Of course I am certain now that I said that someone will call me a lying SOB. Hey that is why I post here, I love the abuse.

ASS_CLOWN

When I won my 1200 pound 1967 Clausing 5914 at auction, I had no idea how I would get it home.

Then a guy named Eric came up to me at the auction, and offered to haul it the 15 miles to my home for $50.



There was a huge overhead crane where I bought the lathe, so getting it on Eric's flatbed truck was no great trick.

But in the pouring rain, we slipped the lathe down from the 4' 6" high truck bed to my drive way on 10' planks.



I thought the chance of breaking the lathe was 90% and serious injury to someone was 10%, but it all worked out.



Now at machinery auctions I still see big Eric working the crowd.

Sounds like how I got my Clausing in the garage, but think forklift instead of crane... My adventure was a might touchier though - when the lathe got to the end of the planks, it stopped(my driveway is on a slight incline). The solution? Two guys tip the lathe up while #3 pulls the boards out from under it? Sounds scary but went slick n' easy.. I would not try this with anything much bigger than this as moving big stuff gets hairy - Couple of weeks ago I spent the day moving ,oh, 20-25,000 pounds of machinery, mostly by forklift but some the hardway(johnson bar and pipe rollers) It isn't fun when things start getting heavy

Toolmaker

Jeffe, just spoke to him, expect a call soon!

Toolmaker

Talked with Him tonight... emails will be swapping..

heh, AINT my truck!!!

i CAN borrow the trailer for the excursion... and btw, have you ever seen a HUGE air compressor (300) 2 sand blast pots, 200' hose, and 200 bags of sand on a 3axel trailer and a chevy 1ton?... and the damn thing STILL got 9 MPG... BOTH ways

jeffe

How many leaves snapped?

Toolmaker

Les, I've had a grizzly 7x12 for about five years now. You are right about its usefulness. For a (former) military guy on a budget who moved a lot, it was just the ticket. As for its lack of rigidity, you just have to take lighter cuts and take more time.

I used Varmint Al's reamer on the spindle years ago, but don't have a chuck with a large enough thru-hole to work. Please post a picture and/or description of the chuck you made. Thanks for the post - John

John,
The 4 screw chuck is 3.820 dia. X 1.250 thick. It is cut to fit a 7X10 with the three screw, and as you know the 7X12 Grizzly can be either 3 or 4 screws to hold to the spindle. I used 4 allen head screws to hold the work that are 3/8X16X1.250 The three screws to hold the chuck to the head are turn down 3/8 X16 to 6mmX1.0 screw size. This is the same as the original chuck used. I can show the back but it is the same as a chuck fitted to the spindle recesses.

Thanks for the additional info Les. The chuck looks easy to make. I've got two more questions:

-Is it possible to turn the chuck's O.D. on the mini-lathe or do I need to use a bigger machine?

-Why did you mill the reliefs to expose the threads near the thru-hole? (I assume it had to do with the length of the tap)

Thanks again - John

I made this on a larger lathe. The hole is bored to 1.312 and I forgot to list this in the other post. It might be possible to turn this on a 7X12, but the outer diameter would be hard on the motor and you would have to take a very light cut of maybe .003. The slots were milled for a couple of reasons. The tap was short and I had planned to use a brass swivel tip on the screw ends. It was easier to use brass shim stock. The back is machined to fit tight on the spindle head like a chuck back plate.

Here is a tool you might like to make. I made all of my own bolt knobs. This little radius ball cutter will give a very good shape to the end of the knob.