Model 70 Classic Supergrade (low serial number) - on most occasions safety will not engage.

So I took the bolt out of another Model 70 Classic in .338 with a very close serial number and ran it through the .300 Winnie action. No problems. worked very well and as it should.

So what does that tell me. that it probably something in the .300 Winnies's bolt that isn't quite right. How can I further check to determine exactly what that is?

The cocking piece cam is not being held back far enough for the safety to engage it. Solution is to remove the cocking piece and dress off some (carefully) so the safety can cam it back.

You can return it to Winchester and tell them you a very concerned because of a falfuntioning safety. It will get fixed! They don't need litigation.

Call and tell them, they may send you to a local factory authorized repair shop (e.g. Local gun shop)

Most model 70 safety's have to be refitted every 10 to 20 years depending on how much they are used. The reason for this is that the main sear slowly wears down allowing the cocking piece to move forward a miniscule amount every time the gun is fired. It finally wears to the point where the cam on the safety can no longer engage the cam on the cocking piece. It's not a difficult repair but it should be done by someone with a bit of experience in such matters for best results. When repaired properly the trigger sear and second sear should have approximately .015 to .030 inch of wink when the safety is on. The cocking piece should also move rearward a corresponding amount when the safety is moved on.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
The cocking piece cam is not being held back far enough for the safety to engage it. Solution is to remove the cocking piece and dress off some (carefully) so the safety can cam it back.

Yep, just smoothing the line at the outside of the camming notch is usually enough. Once it starts turning the safety cam does the rest. The problem tends to happen after trigger honing by someone who doesn't realize that the two functions are interrelated but some come from the factory like that. I've seen it a lot and its an easy fix. A gunsmith shouldn't cost you any more than whatever his minimum charge is.

Sounds to me like the bolt lock notch is placed wrong.. When the safety is engaged, the bolt lock pin protrudes just a bit before the safety moves to the center position. If the notch isn't there, the safety lever will not be able to engage. The clue is that the safety can engage if the bolt handle is lifted up. If you put considerable pressure on the safety lever and lift the bolt handle while doing this, (repeat a few times)you should get enough of a mark to see this when you unscrew the bolt sleeve and striker assembly from the bolt body.
The proper cure is to weld up the notch and cut a new one in the right location. The slightly half-assed approach is to simply widen the notch. This will allow the safety to engage but the bolt lock will be very sloppy. Regards, Bill.

This is an easy fix (Bill's idea is valid too) if you know how they work. If one is not comfortable, do not attempt it.

I know how it works. Plenty of video available. But for the sake of safety I am not going to fix it.
I just want to make sure I know what is wrong with it before I take it to somebody else to have it fixed so that I know that they know what they are doing!

Here is how you will know; if it never worked at all, then it is the safety/bolt detent. (The relationship of those parts does not change with wear) If it worked for a while, then stopped working, then it is the safety/cocking piece cam. (The relationship of these parts definitely changes with wear.)

Have tried changing the follower yet ?

Actually if it never worked from day one, it can be either problem.

I was doing warranty for Winchester back in the 1980s when some CEO in upper management came up with the hare-brained idea of rotating the people in assembly to keep them from getting bored or whatever the foolish logic was. For about two years, every second new model 70 we got required a safety refit.

During that time the people at the plant made us privy to a factory quick-fix for the problem. It involved cocking the gun, using smooth jaw pliers to put the safe on 1/4 safe and then pulling the trigger and striking the cocking piece with a chunk of babbitt.

Others who did warranty for USRA at that time will probably remember it. It was a brutal sort of repair and there was a 5% total failure on safeties but when it worked the 95% of the time it was really slick and saved us a pile of time. I would never do it now that I don't have a never ending supply of free safeties.

Gentlemen

I don't think it ever worked well from day one. That's probably why I got it for so cheap from the guy I bought it from. (Like I said, it does sometimes work with a lot of effort by opening up the bolt and at the same time pulling back on the safety lever)

Its probably from the same group of rifles that you are talking about. Its a very early Classic Model. G21xxx.

I have narrowed it down further. I have taken the bolt parts (cocking piece, spring, firing pin, etc) from the .338 and put them on the .300 Winnie bolt and then into the .300 Winnie action. works fine.

so its definitely something wrong with the cocking piece, safety, or other part on the .300 Winnie bolt, but not the bolt body itself. whew!

It doesn't really matter which part is at fault. None of the possible flaws are all that difficult to repair. This has turned into one of those threads where everything possible is being done to make a simple repair mysterious. I can't blame anyone else for wasting time this way but I'm going to get up and give myself a good slap upside the head! Regards, Bill.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
It doesn't really matter which part is at fault. None of the possible flaws are all that difficult to repair. This has turned into one of those threads where everything possible is being done to make a simple repair mysterious. I can't blame anyone else for wasting time this way but I'm going to get up and give myself a good slap upside the head! Regards, Bill.

So Bill, remember back in the day, when the earth was cooling, dinosaurs and all. People would call you up on the phone and try to describe what was wrong so that you could fix their guns over the phone. You remember that? Well, you're retired now but you're still doing the same thing today. 20 years later. You seem to be kind of a sucker for punishment. LMAO ROFF

A female relative took her pickup in for a wheel alignment. she was told she needed upper and lower ball joints on both front wheels and that she should probably get her brakes "fixed" as well. He could do it "right away" and the cost would only be $800.00.

She declined to get it fixed immediately, and later told her husband about the upcoming expense. He took it to a different shop where they did the alignment (no ball joints needed) and they didn't do the brakes either (not needed). total cost $50.00. truck now drives fine.

When your getting something fixed it matters which part needs fixing, and what the fix actually is. This way one avoids the dreadful repair guy who fixes something by replacing every part possible until he finds the one that really needed replacing and then tells you that you needed all of them replaced.

Thank you to all who responded.

quote:

Most model 70 safety's have to be refitted every 10 to 20 years depending on how much they are used

Tell me it is not true the models 70 isn't the prefect rifle. Horrors a pond horrors.