How far from the end of the forend is a barrel band swivel base normally mounted? And would epoxy hold it in place?

I have a muzzle heavy rifle that doesn't carry on a sling very well. I figure moving the swivel forward will help keep it muzzle up.

Do a search. Duane Wiebe has said that the mid point of the barrel is about right. I believe he also said that loctite will hold them on(if fitted correctly).

I did a search but didn't come up with anything useful. A search with Wiebe worked. Thanks.

For what it's worth I put mine 1 to 1 1/2" short of halfway from the end of the forend & the muzzle. I use Black Max 380 to secure them & never had one come off.

It is a question of asthetics and it depends on the length of the barrel, the fore end and whether there is a fore end tip or not. As has been said about half the length of the barrel but it should also be at least a couple of inches from the fore end tip. I have seen it done where it was only about 8 - 10 inches from the muzzle to keep a very low carry.

Von Gruff.

quote:

Originally posted by Von Gruff:
I have seen it done where it was only about 8 - 10 inches from the muzzle to keep a very low carry.
Von Gruff.

That's because they're carrying the rifle in the all-too-common but IMO improper muzzle-up-behind-right-shoulder position.

I see this all the time on US rifles but less so on Continental and UK rifles. Some of this is personal preference and some is because the owners' military rifles had the swivels installed that way and they simply haven't thought about trying to find a better positioning. The muzzle-up-right-shoulder carry is OK for soldiers marching on parade past the reviewing stand but it's very slow and awkward in the woods.

I personally put my rear swivel about 4"-5" forward of the stock's toe, with the forward swivel band mounted maybe 2" forward of the forend tip and the forearm made somewhat shorter than past US practice, more like a UK rifle.
Regards, Joe

Is it a barrel banded swivel or just a swivel stud with concave base?

Either way 2" in front of the stock is a good place to start if the forearm is short and you prefer the rifle to carry lower install it further out. After you got an idea step back about 3-5' from the rifle and look at the rifle if it just looks to far out move it. Its about looks as well as function other wise you would just install one in the wood.


The only way to install is to solder it on why risk anything else?

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:

quote:

Originally posted by Von Gruff:
I have seen it done where it was only about 8 - 10 inches from the muzzle to keep a very low carry.
Von Gruff.

That's because they're carrying the rifle in the all-too-common but IMO improper muzzle-up-behind-right-shoulder position.

I see this all the time on US rifles but less so on Continental and UK rifles. Some of this is personal preference and some is because the owners' military rifles had the swivels installed that way and they simply haven't thought about trying to find a better positioning. The muzzle-up-right-shoulder carry is OK for soldiers marching on parade past the reviewing stand but it's very slow and awkward in the woods.

I personally put my rear swivel about 4"-5" forward of the stock's toe, with the forward swivel band mounted maybe 2" forward of the forend tip and the forearm made somewhat shorter than past US practice, more like a UK rifle.
Regards, Joe

So what, IYO is the "right" way to carry a slung rifle?

I actually carry mine like my I did my M-16 when I was a kid.

Something on the muzzle to keep the crud and mud out, muzzle down and pointing at the ground toward my weak side; butt up near my strong side shoulder.

Then my hands are free to move branches away or speak in Italian.

I tried that just for the hell of it, (i will never change) that was the most uncofortable way I have ever seen. Are you putting your head through the sling and carrying it diagonal if so i can see that works bettr than just around the shoulder, but there is no way you can get the rifle off in a hurry. The only good thing is it carries the rifle low but then to low especially after you drag your front sight over a few rocks and realize you dont have a bead anymore.

If it works for you do it.

Muzzle down, slung from left shoulder with butt behind shoulder. Rifle is almost upside down and left hand is on forearm controlling the muzzle and keeping the sling in place, much like the right hand would be occupied if the rifle was slung from the right shoulder. When game is sighted then the left hand lifts the rifle slightly, freeing the sling pressure and allowing the sling to fall free off the left shoulder as the left hand then sweeps the rifle around and up to seat the butt in its place on the right shoulder. No wasted time, no lost motion, shooter can fire within one second instead of fumbling around. This carry method was published in the Williams Gun Sight Co's catalog of the 1960s along with their suggestions for sporterizing military rifles.

Yes, you need to keep the muzzle out of the mud. If you're worried that you're too awkward or clumsy to keep the muzzle out of the mud, then an excellent preventive would be to put a small piece of ductape over the muzzle. It'll blow off from air pressure long before the bullet ever exits the muzzle and thus won't alter the bullet's point of impact. I used to have a bunch of little plastic caps that fit closely around the flash-hider of my M16 that served a similar purpose to the tape but they're all gone these days, shot away long ago.
Regards, Joe

Well, for what it's worth..here's my "system"

With the rifle slung muzzle up over the r. shoulder,muzzle up, you should be able to grasp the buttplate..in my case tha't 32" forward of buttplate. I like to put the rear about 5" forward of the buttplate. That way it will usually keep the muzzle out of the dirt if you want to carry muzzle down.

Depends on your build in any case.

OK, I measured it. The forend is 11" long from the receiver. It has a long forend tip. It has a 26" barrel and the present swivel is 6-1/2" from the receiver and 4-1/2" from the forend tip. It is 28" from the butt. If I put the swivel at half barrel point it will be 1-1/2 " from the forend tip and about 34" from the butt.

The problem now is if you carry muzzle up it wants to slip until it is horizontal. The rear swivel is 2-1/2" from the butt. It carries OK muzzle down but hangs to low with the 26" barrel. It has a decent piece of wood on it and I don't really want to put more holes in it.

You know, if you're pretty tall, 34" might be too bad. The rear is really pretty far back for a muzzle down carry...ever thought of a nice initial plate to cover the old swivel hole..kinda backwards from "normal", but I've seen it that way

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe:
You know, if you're pretty tall, 34" might be too bad. The rear is really pretty far back for a muzzle down carry...ever thought of a nice initial plate to cover the old swivel hole..kinda backwards from "normal", but I've seen it that way

WONDERFUL idea!
Regards, Joe

I have never used a monogram plate on the forearm. I have done basically the same thing with cartridge heads and ebony plugs.

James

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe:
Well, for what it's worth..here's my "system"

With the rifle slung muzzle up over the r. shoulder,muzzle up, you should be able to grasp the buttplate..in my case tha't 32" forward of buttplate. I like to put the rear about 5" forward of the buttplate. That way it will usually keep the muzzle out of the dirt if you want to carry muzzle down.

Depends on your build in any case.

Duane

I have found that I am most comfortable with the muzzle up, slung over the right shoulder if I can control the buttplate with my right hand palm out. This causes the rifle to lay against my back. To get the rifle into action I keep my right hand on the buttplate and reach across with my left. once I have the forend in my left hand, I release the buttplate and grab the wrist as the rifle is coming to shoulder.

I have found this to be very fast.

If you carry muzzle-up, over the shoulder without controlling the buttplate, getting the rifle off the shoulder reminds my of a removing a jacket that is one size too small.

J.D.

I am going to try the muzzle down methods that you described on this thread to see how it works out. I have found other muzzle down carries to feel pretty contrived.

I am medium tall and wear a 34" sleeve so it may work. I think I will rig something up to try it before I install the barrel band. Thanks.

With the system I use, the sling is set so that when I swing the rifle up it provides the perfect tension against my shoulder. It takes less than a second (significantly less) to do it that way. Check "The Wilderness" website in Arizona. They make a great two point sling. You don't need the rear swivel. When walking the rifle just hangs in a very comfortable position.

Wars give us advances in many areas 'eh?

LD