I'm thinking of buying a as good as new Sako Vixen 222Rem and rechamber it for 223 Rem. Ackley Improved. Anyone have experiences with that operation ???? Any problems ???
I think the magazine will work fine with that new round or ... ??

Thanks !!!

There is no reason that the conversion wouldn't work fine.

On the other hand, I would hate to see a wonderful and increasingly scarce L461 altered from the magnificent .222 Remington. I have Sako L461's in .222, .223, and .222 Magnum and like them all, but the .222 is the most accurate and consistent. As far as velocity, the practical difference in the three (and the .223 Ackley) is negligible. My advice would be to keep that .222 original!

The performance difference of the 222 as compared to the 223Ackley is of more magnitude,than most would realize.

40's at 4000fps,50's at 3750fps. The 223Ackley has become my favorite 22centerfire............

3750 fps with a 50 grain bullet is a pretty good real-world velocity with a .22-250. I'm not saying you can't reach this with some incarnation of a .223 case, but it would require a long and extraordinarily fast barrel coupled with some indescretion in regard to pressures.

The .223 Ackley would have to be similar in case capacity to the .222 Magnum. In a 24" barrel, the .222 Mag will do near 3500 fps with a 50 grain bullet and pressures in the upper end of normal limits (chronographed some 52's over H-335 at 3450 just this weekend). By the same token, when loaded to similar pressures, the .222 can reach about 3300 to 3350 with 50's. Remember that the factory 50's at 3200 fps are held to the mid-40,000's c.u.p. range.

I'm not saying that you're not getting the 3750 out of your .223, Stick; I'm just justifying my original statement that the velocity difference in the .222 family is, in practical application, somewhat negligible.

There is an advantage to using .223 mil-spec brass, which is generally harder and thicker than commercial brass, since you can load it to higher pressures without sticky extraction and enlarged primer pockets. But you can get the same advantage in a regular .223, an Ackley .223, or even by forming .222 from it. In a pinch, you can even fireform .223 brass for use in a .222 Magnum chamber, if you know what you're doing and can put up with very short necks.

Anyway, I hope Dane considers the value of keeping his Sako original before "improving" it.

I've got three 223Ackleys. Barrels are 22",23" and 24". Friends are good for 5 more like chambered rifles.

I haven't a pressure barrel,so could not give that value.

We've been shooting them for years,with very similar loads and brass life is exceptional in all rifles(indicative of sane pressure levels).

I favor R/P cases,a CCI Sm rifle primer,H-335 and moly coated projectiles.

I save GI hulls for my AR's and other 223 bolt guns. Pretty hard to shoot them "loose" as you implied.

Timm's article in Varmint Hunter,prompted me to contemplate such a beast,after reading of speeds he attained sans moly,in a 22" tube. A pard built the first one on a splendid Sako A1 action,with a 1-12" PacNor SuperMatch,that is 22" in length. It left me amazed first and then a believer. I was sold and remain so.

Since then,I find little use in the 22-250,22-250Ackley and most the other Big 224 centerfires in my closets. If the 223Ackley isn't up to the task,it is time to gravitate to the various 6mm's,in my opinion.

The "value" of a rifle,is in the enjoyment the owner receives from it. I've had numerous 222's and it is a good little cartridge. However today in retrospect,if given a 222 in a 40X,the first thing I'd do is punch it out to 223Ackley.

It remains an amazing cartridge,in my estimation..............

Just weighed a couple formed cases. They hold 33.1grs of water,on the average. If that is of any value.

Nosler #4 grants a 223 pushing 40's,a speed of over 3800fps(two loads,out of their 24" test barrel) and 50's at 3497fps.

Food for thought...........

Big Stick: You're making me a believer, and I appreciate the way you approach the subject.

But let me ask this question: What's the advantage, other than cheap brass, of the .223 Ackley over the .222 Magnum? They would have to be very, very close in capacity. Also, if the .223 Ackley is good, then why wouldn't an improved case based on the .222 Magnum be even better? Just a thought.

Does anyone know if those velocities for the 223 AI can be reached in a Contender Carbine? Man, slap a 22" barrel on one of them and you would have you one handi little varmint gun.

Stonecreek,

I have zero firsthand experience with the Triple-deuce magnum,so couldn't comment on the capabilities.

The brass as you mention,is reason enough for me. Currently,Commercial once-fired brass is $20 or less,per thousand. I shoot it quite a bit and that adds a nice bonus,to what I feel to be an already sensational cartridge.

A 222Mag Ackley Improved,should be even better,as it would boast more capacity. However,for me,the 223 seals the deal with it's damn near free brass.

My next 223AI will be in a 20",solely as an experiment to see how the cartridge is effected by barrel length.

It is a hard cartridge,not to fall in love with................

Dane, I would have to agree with Stonecreek about rechambering the barrel on the L461,Instead I would suggest that you pull off the original barrel and put on a custom barrel of your choice and chamber it for .223ACK retaining the original value of a Bofours steel barrel.

Gentlemen,

Although I'm a big fan of the 222Mag.....it does have a problem with the L461/A1 action. The maximum cartridge length of the magazine box is approximately 2.28". The barrel chamber would have to be very shortly throated in order to be able to get the bullet seated anywhere near the lands. I've a few L461 17 Magnums where this is the case.

I've toyed with the idea of the 222AI Mag. on a 40XBR action in the past, as I'd prefer it over the 223AI, because of more boiler room and longer neck. Brass availability/cost is not a very big factor, when compared to how much I'm spending on everything else.

Just food for thought.

Friend Of The 17
Kevin Gullette

Thanks for all the good advices.

I think I'll go with Hutt' on this one. Keep the original Bofors steel intact and maybe later get another barrel for 223AI.

I just bought the Sako last night for about 360$ (good deal here in pricy Denmark), and are now waiting for my permit.

Once again thanks.

As a new owner of the same rifle but in varmint style I have to say you will be gobsmacked by how good it is!

Try RWS factory 50gr soft point - .4" in my rifle and fantastic brass.

The only change to mine is a glass bedding job, don't know if it needed it but had it done while I was waiting for my licence. I got some good advice from people here so if you search 222 you'll see it.

Kevin: You're right about the L461 action being a bit on the short side for the .222 Magnum. In mine, most conventional 55 grain bullets do just fine, but the long 55 grain Ballistic Tip has to be seated deep enough that the beginning of the ogive taper is actually below the mouth of the case. Performance is still fine, but esthetically it's distracting.

However, if your goal is to shoot bullets under 55 grains, especially some of the in-vogue 40 and 35 grain synthetic tips, the L461 would do just fine in a .222 Magnum or Ackley version. If your intention was to use 68's and 70's however, the Remington or other "medium" action would be better.

By the way, do you have any idea what length magazine is in the new Sako 75 short action?

Stonecreek,

Yep....my 17/223's, 223's, and 17Rem's are about the longest cartridges that can reach the lands AND squeeze into the magazine box.

Funny you should mention shooting the lighter .224 bullets, as the Nosler 40BT is a favorite of mine. For PD's it is very effective in my 40XBR 222 at 3785fps, and in my Sako Varmint single-shot 22PPC at 3900fps. For coyote calling it works very well in an H&R Ultra Wildcat 223.

Sorry, but I don't have even a clue concerning the Sako 75 magazine length. I still haven't forgiven Sako for abandoning the L461/A1 action......doubt I ever will.

Friend Of The 17
Kevin Gullette

Kevin,

Just curious. Where do you go for your prairie dog hunting? Not asking you to give up your honey hole, just wondering what part of the world you've had luck in.

I've been going up around Dalhart, but that's a helluva long way. I've been thinking of calling some farmer friends of mine in the Lubbock vicinity, as I hear that there are some good towns around there.

There are some populations in the Childress area, but most folks around there act like they're kind of scarce and don't want them shot.

I've never used a .17, but can believe they're a lot of fun on pdogs.

Stonecreek,

Like you, I hunt the panhandle area. I don't know anyone in the Lubbock area, but have a friend in Childress. Not many PD's there, though.

My favorite PD 17's are: a 40XBR 17 Javelina launching 20 V-Maxes at 4400fps, and a Cooper Varminter 17AH that shoots the 20's at 3850fps. They sure are fun to shoot...........NO recoil. The Cooper's good for up to about 400 yards, and the 40XBR's longest PD, so far, was 630 yards(Geovid).

17's-R-US!
Kevin Gullette

quote:

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Originally posted by Big Stick:
Just weighed a couple formed cases. They hold 33.1grs of water,on the average. If that is of any value.

Nosler #4 grants a 223 pushing 40's,a speed of over 3800fps(two loads,out of their 24" test barrel) and 50's at 3497fps.

Food for thought...........

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I've got two 223AI and with 50 gr bullets I'm at 3558fps average for the two and velocity was done over an oehler 35p. My 222AI gets 3345fps with a 55 gr. 223 is 3402fps with a 50 gr bullet. Working on my loads for the 222 mag. Would like to do a 222magAI someday. I hear all these claims on velocity and I cann't get them. In the 70 odd rifles I've done over the 35p I've only had one that did what a manual said. Followed the load from Speers #4 wildcat manual on a 7x57AI and was within 5fps. Food for thought.