Well, I have a decent stock that has been fitted with a decent metal butt plate and inletted for the M98. It's a bit thick, like you'd expect for a heavy recoiling gun. Between being thick and having a metal buttplate, I'm having a hard time deciding what cartridge to mate up to it.

So, what do you think the heaviest recoiling rifle you'd do with a metal plate? I've a nice 35 Whelen barrel, but think it might kick the snot out of me.

223, 243?

biggest thing I've shot with a metal plate was a 45/70 levergun, didn't enjoy it, but they're generally lighter than a bolt gun.

If it were a hunting rifle, and it was a good looking stock, I'd say chamber whatever you'd like to hunt with, do your sight in and practice with a recoil shield and then in the field don't worry about it. If the stock isn't really all that to look at, cut it and put a pad.

I'd take a nicely stocked metal plated 275 rigby in a heartbeat.

Red

If you like the 35 Whelen go with it. I've shot plenty of 30-06 rifles with metal buttplates and they're not too bad.

Depends on how much shooting you are planning on doing with it though.

I don't recall any '03 Springfields or M-1 Garands coming with pads when issued.

Likewise, a great many of the big bore lever guns, like the 50-100s and the 50-110s came without pads too.

Especially when hunting, soft pads really aren't necessary. Most of the game areas which still have good supplies of large enough game to merit a big cartridge also have lots of cool weather during hunting seasons. Then the shooter is likely also wearing a fair amount of clothing which provides at least a little padding effect.

Anyway, the secret to reducing recoil is to shoot enough to where the gun is just an ordinary tool for killing game. Your muscles WILL learn to receive and give with the recoil, pretty much eliminating pain and bruising.

That won't be accomplished in a single week just before a hunting trip. It will require dozens of trips to the range, spread over months or years, to really besome second nature. But, then the same is true of becoming a skilled hunter. Lots of field time and/or range time pays off in the end.

It is important to always use enough gun for the game hunted, but it is also equally important to not use more gun than a person is willing to put in the work to acomodate himself to.

Stokes,
I have a steel butt plate on my 35 Whelen.
Not a problem.
Doug

http://forums.accuratereloadin...1043/m/942104608/p/1

You can always use a Past shoulder pad at the range. I seldom notice recoil in the field. The proper metal butt plate will add to your rifle.

A metal butt plate is no worse than a hard plastic one, in my experience.

I have found that they don't hurt until the rifle and cartridge combo starts generating upwards of 50 ft.-lbs. of recoil energy.

At about that level, a good recoil pad becomes your best friend!

They slide around too much under recoil!

I love metal buttplates for asthetic reasons, but frankly they are all but useless when it comes to field conditions!

JW

Jeff, I have them on some of my hunting rifles, where they seem to work okay.

And I have a feeling anyway that several million military veterans of various nationalities and wars might disagree with you about how well they function.

But there is definitely a place for a good recoil pad on the back end of the butt stock of any hard kicker, of course.

404 Jeffery

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Wemmer:
They slide around too much under recoil!

I love metal buttplates for asthetic reasons, but frankly they are all but useless when it comes to field conditions!

JW

I can't resist: Try closing your hands when you put them on the pistol grip and forend.

Seriously...I haven't experienced that problem. I HAVE had rubber buttplates/pads catch on my clothing when mounting a rifle while heavily clothed in below zero hunting conditions.

I have a pre-64 Winchester M-70 Supergrade in 300H&H that has a metal butt plate......I don't find it's recoil to be uncomfortable at all.

Alberta: Couple of months ago had opportunity to shoot, for the first time, a M1 Garand wi steel buttplate (my son's), after all these years. I was surprised at the light recoil, a result of the gas operated action & weight. Its recoil was lighter than any other 30-06 (or equivalent) that I have shot. It was fun to shoot.

As far as steel buttplate, I think any cartridge in the recoil range the OP is thinking of could be managed with some repetitive shooting- as Alberta C suggests. Some moderate to heavy recoiling cartridges take some getting used to. Also, not everyone has the same recoil tolerance. And, if you start by thinking it will "kick the snot out of you"; it probably will. You would be starting with that expectation.

About recoil, and getting used to it: I have a light Kimber (about 7.3 lbs scoped)in .300WSM. Has sharp recoil. After shooting it for awhile got used to it. Later removed muzzle brake from a M70 Win Classic in 300WM (8.5-9.0lbs scoped) and, after shooting it without brake wondered why I had a brake on it to begin with (it came with it). Its recoil is lighter than the Kimber. I figure that I got used to the recoil of the Kimber and that translated to acceptable recoil in the Win.

For many years my 'road ready' rifle was a pre-64 M70 in 270 WCF, with a Winchester steel buttplate. Its favorite load was a 150 gr Nosler Partition pushed to ~3000 fps(!).

It was uncomfortable to shoot off the bench after more than 6-8 rounds and the factory steel buttplate tended to slip off of slick or smooth surfaces. The abrupt right-angled edges of the buttplate really dug into my shoulder while the slightly-recessed checkering didn't help it hold on a hard surface.

I replaced it with a repro Winchester recoil pad like the factory custom shop would have used, and was MUCH MUCH happier with the result.

It's possible and even probable that I could have greatly improved the feel and performance of the factory M70 plate by cutting down and rounding its sharp right-angled edges but I'll save that approach for the next one.
Regards, Joe

I will have to opine that, while millions of military rifles have had metal butt plates, the soldiers had no recourse. And from what I have heard from a lot of world war II vets, they did complain, and a lot. My dad, who was a serius rifleman all his life, always contended that the 03 was the most punishing rifle he ever used, both to the shoulder and nose (stocks too short).

I love the looks of a metal butt plate. I just sent a Model 1912 to have it blued yesterday (7x57). I have stocked it in a prewar style stock and used a Niedner style butt. I will probably never hunt with it, since I hate steel plates for real world use. They will slip and fall at the drop of a hat. You have to be very careful where you set them, even in range rackes, to avoid an accident.

quote:

I will have to opine that, while millions of military rifles have had metal butt plates, the soldiers had no recourse.

They DID in the British Military! Why? Because yet another advantage of the Lee-Enfield over the Mauser was...interchangeable butt stocks.

Made in three (at one time four) lengths a man when issued his rifle had it fitted to him. In either SHORT, NORMAL or LONG.

With a BANTAM butt for the extra short men recruited in WWI.

So as they key to not getting knocked about by a rifle is having a butt of proper length to fit the man the British serviceman had no complaint.

When I used a Lee Enfield I took the LONG butt. I once had the "pleasure" of shooting one with a SHORT butt! Ouch!

I have two 30-06's. One a pre-64 that's a cream puff with a metal butt. One a early FN supreme with a plastic butt. It will kick the dog snot out of me.
The stock shape is what makes the rifle kick or not.

quote:

Originally posted by brad may:
I have two 30-06's. One a pre-64 that's a cream puff with a metal butt. One a early FN supreme with a plastic butt. It will kick the dog snot out of me.
The stock shape is what makes the rifle kick or not.

+1

The shape of the stock and the shape of the buttplate make a big difference. Anyone who has ever shot a Winchester M88 in 308 will tell you that a plastic buttplate with sharp edges can be painful even with a mild cartridge.

Find an old mouse pad and cut out a recoil pad from it. Then have it sewn into your shooting vest and/or hunting jacket/coat. Nothing short of diamond inlays and white spacers is as unsightly on a wood-stocked rifle as butt pads (IMHO).

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
[+1

The shape of the stock and the shape of the buttplate make a big difference. Anyone who has ever shot a Winchester M88 in 308 will tell you that a plastic buttplate with sharp edges can be painful even with a mild cartridge.

And the surface size of the butt is iportant, too. The wider and longer it is (more surface area), generally the less the felt recoil is. For example, one of the less comfortable rifles I've shot is a .303 SMLE "jungle--carbine, with that short, narrow, hard rubber "pad" as the buttplate.


Still and all, I found that after years of shooting, rifles I used to consider hard kickers now seem to be pussycats hardly worse than a .22 LR...like my Win M88 in .30/.284 chambering.

Over the years I have owned and shot lots of rounds through .450 NE, .470, and .577 NE double rifles, and learned instinctively how to hold them and how to "give" with them. In turn that has made shooting very hot loaded, light-weight .45-70s a "piece of cake".

Some stock shapes do bother me still, though...Ruger #1's in particlar, and one of my buddies' little .416 WSM in particular. I find stocks that are too short to be a particular bitch.

Anyway, for most stocks, I have found "shots down range" to be a great recoil reducer, as my body develops the muscle memory of how to hold and use that firearm comfortably.

Great thread!

I will reiterate: Metal buttplates are great for collectible / nostalgic purposes and really not much more.

I install pads on my "shooters" and mostly for the purpose of increasing my shooting performance - not recoil reduction.

So, I decided to do a little re-investigation of my collection. Let me clarify, I really have 3 collections in one: 1) Totally pristine, excellent condition all originals - most have hard butts; checkered wood, steel, horn, plastic 2) Shooter-collectors, maybe a little this or that done to them over the years but really nice - about a 50-50 hard vs. pads. 3) Total shooters, complete with tape here and there for comb adjustment, Kick-Eze pads, or any legitimate modification to make them hit things more efficiently.

That said, I Went through my collection earlier this day and wiped everybody down and did a little loving on the safe queens. In doing so, I mounted up a few classics with steel BPs: Purdey 11 Bore DB percussion, 1873 44-40. '86 50EX, Several 92s & 94s and my favorite pre-64 Supergrade 220 Swift - To the gun they felt like I was holdng the equlivent of a hard-tail Harley!...Then I went to my rack where my shooters are and looked at all of the guns I have either bought with recoil pads installed / had them installed - Every gun had a recoil pad! And when mounting a few of them it was like having an extension of my body! We have a rifle and shotgun range here at the house, so I keep a rack of 50 or so rifles and shotguns handy at all times.

My point is simple - any long gun that when mounted stays put under recoil and to a lesser degree mitigates said recoil is a definate advantage over a hard, slippery steel butt. That and the fact that the move today is to equip M-4s and other battle rifles with rubberized butts - that or the contact points on body armor / loadbearing vests have sticky rubberized contact points to maintain a better weld in the shoulder pocket.

Why? To increase accuracy! Mounting up a weapon whose butt stays put is a huge advantage - especially when shooting from multiple positions!

The advantage is obvious for all shooting disciplines and is well known in the elite shooting community!

Oh, and one last thing - accidentally drop a weapon with a steel / hard buttplate muzzle up and you increase the chances of a slam-fire cracked heel or toe of your stock!

JW

From reading your last post, I would opine you are one of the people who should not have a metal buttplate, but the softest one you can find.

There are others of us who prefer the metal buttplate, and that is what WE should have.

No "RIGHT" or "WRONG" to it. Your preference is yours. Mine is mine. Both based on our perceived experiences, which obviously differ greatly.

I am in the camp that thinks that stock shape and weight distribution have more to do with recoil absorbtion than the butt material.
In answer to your question, my 425 Westley Richards has a steel buttplate and, while stout as would be expected, the recoil is manageable when mounted properly and you roll with the recoil.

In fact, on reflection, I notice that my original 425WR, 333Jeffery, 350Rigby, 360No.2 Greener double, and all of my Farquharsons have steel butt plates.
My Mahillon in 416Rigby has a Silvers pad and it may as well be steel judging by the recoil!

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Wemmer:
Oh, and one last thing - accidentally drop a weapon with a steel / hard buttplate muzzle up and you increase the chances of a slam-fire cracked heel or toe of your stock!
JW

This is my secondary objection, primary objection being the slipperiness on hard surfaces.

IMO any new build with a hard buttplate should include a hidden support rod glass-bedded into the stock's toe. Actually any smith who doesn't do this is, IMO, thus building second- or third-rate rifles and needs to change things for the better.

Think about it; why in the world would you NOT install this inexpensive bit of insurance?
Regards, Joe

I can tell you one thing when one is 12yoa a metal butt on a 03A3 kicks the heck out of you.

To this day I don't like them and that was 43 years ago.

I've got a M70 .300 WSM custom, with checkered steel buttplate, and it neither recoils any more than a pad, nor slips on my shoulder.

The only time it is noticeable is shooting prone or laying low over a bench, when the recoil is on the collarbone and not in the shoulder pocket, so to speak. Then it will get your attention, but still serviceable.

After hunting/ shooting this gun for years, I would not change a thing.

I've got metal plates on other rifles, but the question was what was the largest that was comfortable to me. It's at least a .300 magnum.

A Remington 700 in 270 win. re-stocked with a fancy piece of walnut in a rollover style and a Winchester style checkered buttplate that rolls up over the heel. It has a #5 contour barrel at 26 inches that I was going to have fluted but never got around to it. I can shoot 10-15 rounds with it off a bench before It starts to irritate me. In the fall with a hoodie or light jacket, I don't notice the recoil at all. DW

I shot a 404 Jeffeys for years that had a Neidner type checkered steel butt plate and it didn't bother me..I discussed this with Jack Belk at one time and Jack said all a recoil pad did was give a gun a one inch running start at your shoulder! Over the years I have decided that he just may have been right. I have shot many a 45-70, 45-90 and bigger Win. riles with cresent butt plates and got by very well with them.

I mostly use those hard Silvers pads and they are not much different than a steel buttplate.
The secret is to pull the big bores into your shoulder with the trigger hand and equally firm with the forearm hand..

It may not work for everyone depending on phyical build and the mental ability to ignore recoil, and very important is how much you shoot big bores.

I like my small medium bores to have slightly cuved steel buttplates such as the Neider or others, mostly in caliber from 9.3x62 on down, but would give my butt and half of Georgia to have another 404 original Jeffeys like my old one with the steel buttplate. the disadvantage of a steel butt is standing the gun up on its butt, they tend to slip and fall, other than that I have had no problem with steeland as opposed to Jeffs opinnion I have found rubber recoil pads to hang up on ones clothing at times and disturbs the pointability of the gun. You can however treat the rubber pads with some slick'um stuff from Brownells, and that works quit well I guess.

One needs to test them before buying one or you always have the option to cut it off and put a recoil pad on the gun or add a slip on pad if the gun is collectable.

Bottom line is take your pick, decide for yourself, lots of options as to how to handle this thread.