I am looking to have a gain twist barrel made and would like to know if there are other barrel makers that have this capability? So far Bartlein is the only one I have found.

I am in need of a 30" .375 13-6.5 twist.

Thanks

I thought another barrel maker was into some gain twist barrels but I couldn't find anything. Maybe they discontinued them.

Bartlein is the only one that I know of off hand. I have a 6.5mm 5R contoured blank with 9.25" - 8" gain twist, ready to put on my 6.5x284.

I hear they hook guppies.

Bartlein is the only one that I know that is offering a gain twist. They charge a pretty good penny for doing it too. I had a Palma barrel made in 12.5 to 12 gain twist and it shot fine, but no better than a straight 12 twist. The amount of gain that you're asking for is too much. It's kind of like a gain that they used on the old lead bullet Scheutzen rifles. It really didn't improve accuracy in them either. I really wouldn't run over a 1" gain if that much. Ask Bartlein what they think.

Ron Smith does them as well. He is (iirc) in Pentickton (sp?), BC, Canada. You can pick the twist to twist gain.

Norm Johnson in Turtle Lake,SD. Norm is an oldtimer, you can reach him at:701-448-9188 or nrjohsn@westriv.com

Thanks Rich!

quote:

Originally posted by clowdis:
Bartlein is the only one that I know that is offering a gain twist. They charge a pretty good penny for doing it too. I had a Palma barrel made in 12.5 to 12 gain twist and it shot fine, but no better than a straight 12 twist. The amount of gain that you're asking for is too much. It's kind of like a gain that they used on the old lead bullet Scheutzen rifles. It really didn't improve accuracy in them either. I really wouldn't run over a 1" gain if that much. Ask Bartlein what they think.

I have found another supplier but they only make barrels for black powder rifles. 48-36. So much for "not more than one inch of gain".

Bartlein has in the past made 4 or 5 of the barrels I specified. They are currently being used with great success on 375Cheytac rifles hurling really heavy monometal bullets.

One inch of gain totally defeats the purpose. Half inch is nothing more than convincing yourself it was a waste of money. For your next Palma barrel why not try a real gain. I suggest a 14-8. Cup and core bullets not so much. These barrels seem to really shine with monometal bullets with or without driving bands.

No, I think I'm staying with a 12 twist for the time being. One of the reasons that I wanted to try a gain was my belief than ANY slowing of the twist in a barrel is detrimental to accuracy, even if it's only a minor amount. A slight (12.5 to 12) gain insured that this didn't happen. Like I said, the barrel shot fine but it just didn't justify the additional cost. On another issue, the 5R rifling gave up at around 2700 rounds and I was expecting closer to 3500. But, like everything else this could be due to any number of things.

There is a reason no one makes them any more; they are a solution looking for a problem.

Maybe you need to find a mint condition Italian M91 Carcano. But I am sure a barrel maker can accommodate you. I agree, what is the advantage?

Hell, all you need is a sturdy vise and a pipe wrench.
Brice

Gain twist is great around a campfire.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Ron Smith does them as well. He is (iirc) in Pentickton (sp?), BC, Canada. You can pick the twist to twist gain.

Norm Johnson in Turtle Lake,SD. Norm is an oldtimer, you can reach him at:701-448-9188 or nrjohsn@westriv.com

Ron is in Windbourne Alberta.

thanks Chuck. I mixed it up with a couple HBR Matches I shot in Pentickton in the 90's.

Ron is an amazing guy. I shot Schuetzen with him for a number of years, until my second rotator cuff surgery on the same shoulder.

Rich

All of my riles have gain twist barrels. As the bullets accelerate they gain rotational twist i.e. angular speed. Seriously, what is the advantage of a gain twist barrel? Other than bragging rights that is.

Ron Smith makes great gain-twist barrels, and he is indeed in Alberta, not Penticton, B.C.

I currently have one of his .30 caliber gain twist barrels on a .30-BR benchrest rifle and it shoots good cast bullets or almost any jacketed bullets remarkably well indeed.

Ron will make his barrels to the outside dimensions you request and also does a beautiful job of fluting his barrels (either shallow or deep, your choice) if you want that too.

I will not argue the advantages, if any, of gain twist rifling. All I can say is that about the same time Rich was shooting Schuetzen class, Bev Pinney was winning Schuetzen matches all over the place with Ron Smith barrels, and won the U.S. Grand National Champion cast bullet benchrest title with one in 1998 at KC, MO.

He is highly skilled, honest, and not expensive, three qualities danged hard to find these days. It's just that I don't know how much hassle it is to get a barrel from Canada into the U.S. with the new U.S. State Department bullshit, courtesy of Mr. Kenyan.

OK, this is just my opinion, not backed by any science.

I decided to experiment with a gain twist barrel to see if a gain twist barrel would result in higher muzzle velocity over a "normal" fast twist barrel.

I thought that it must be harder to accelerate a bullet from zero to a fast twist (the rotational energy has to come from somewhere) than with a slower twist barrel.

In the years of shooting and observing lots of competitive and varmint shooters, I noticed that there seemed to be a slight velocity edge using similar loads with slower twist barrels. This was especially significant to me observing Palma shooters, who use the same load and similar length barrels. The 10" twist barrels seemed to run slower velocities than the competitors with 12" twist barrels, almost universally across the line.

I know that this is not evidence but it got me curious enough to want to experiment with a gain twist.

To me the whole concept is nonsensical. If you think about it ALL rifle barrels are gain-twist. That's because the bullet starts at 0fps and must accelerate as it moves down the barrel. So, for example in a 1-in-10" twist barrel, when the bullet has reached 500fps the bullet is rotating at 36,000rpm. At 1000fps the bullet is spinning at 72,000rpm, 144,000rpm at 2000fps and 216,000rpm at 3000fps.

Gain twist would make sense if a bullet went from zero velocity to max velocity instantaneously. But that doesn't happen.

I have 2 gain twist barrels from Ron Smith. The thing I found with the gain twist was I could shoot a much shorter barrel length and still get about the same velocity. Ron's barrels are accurate as well and if you ever get a chance to see his cable system for making the gain twist it is impressive.

Oh, here is your answer; "None".

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:


Gain twist would make sense if a bullet went from zero velocity to max velocity instantaneously. But that doesn't happen.

Certainly a bullet in a fixed twist rifle gains rotational speed while it is being accelerated down the bore.

That isn't the point of having gain twist. The point is to minimize damage to cast bullets by reducing the sudden twisting forces applied to a bullet going from "zero rotation at rest" to being rapidly twisted early in its flight, which is what happens with regular (not gain-twist) barrels.

Cast bullets in gain-twist barrels also gain rotational speed as they are accelerated down the bore. But they do it in a more gradual manner.

Particularly with longer than normal bullets such as are often fired from Schuetzen rifles, it often seems beneficial.


It doesn't really matter if it "makes sense" to ANYONE. What DOES matter is that it works well in the real world.

Does the gain twist cause smearing of the engraving on the bullet as the angle of the rifling twist (ever increasing) becomes more acute near the end of the barrel?
Fixed twist you can see may skid initially at the start of engraving on front of bearing surface of bullet,
but once fully engaged it is sharply engraved for the rest of the bullet.

Does not the gain twist barrel smear the engraving on the bullet throughout the length of the bearing surface of the bullet?

I too think that gain twist is a sales gimmick.

Regarding velocity advantage of a slower twist barrel:
Doubling a twist rate will slow the bullet less than 1/2 of 1 percent of MV.

A 14" fixed twist will shoot a tiny bit faster than a 7" fixed twist.

It is insignificant also.

Faster than antique twist rates certainly are helpful with modern bullets.

I have .375/404J rifles with both 1:12" and 1:10" twists, and see no significant difference in performance.

How long/heavy is a .375 Chey-Tac bullet that needs faster than 1:12" twist?

As I said before anyone is free to play all kinds of word & logic games with anything and believe whatever they want based on theory.

The bottom line question is still "does it work?" It does.