We did.

Just seeing if we can compare results.


BSA 243 Blow Up

Old military actions were tested by students at TSJC in the 1950's. My instructors from 1961 were working on these projects and discussed these in blow up tests.

Handbook of Shooters and Reloaders
by P.O. Ackley 1959 edition page 127

I recommend this book to have in your collection for gunsmithing projects

I don't know of any test made with modern actions with the alloy steels. I can recall that a Win. 70 (pre '64) was one action to be aware for handloads blowing up the rifles. I have seen several blown up probably by the wrong power used by mistake. Several actions blown with factory ammo without finding a reason for the failure after headspace checked OK.

I hope you will post your results here if you do complete testing.

Thanks
Les Brooks, retired gunsmith

Yes, when I was16 a friend found a 99 Jap (7.7) in the trash dump. (Before we had land fills, we had open dumps; far more interesting to scavenge through.) I loaded rounds with all kinds of powder including Unique. Never did anything but make the primer pockets open up to twice size and melt the primers (I assumed they melted because they were usually gone). I used 308 bullets as that was all I had. The 99 does handle gas pretty well, as Ackley already had demonstrated, and I had his books which is why I tried it too.
And I also blew the bolt face in half on an M14 with blank powder. Melted the rear of the case off and split the stock.

We did.

We tried 3 rifles that had similar powder capacity, but different calibers, from three makers.

Parker Hale .243 Winchester
BRNO CZ 550 .308 Winchester.
Lee Enfield .303 British.

I think the maximum charge we could get into the cases was 35 grains of Hodgdon HP38.

All rifles got damaged to certain levels.

I will post pictures, but would appreciate any guesses from your sides.

My guesses from my limited experience with blown up actions:

Extractor hook bent back on 303. On all three, magazine blown out the bottom and blown apart. First couple of inches of barrel hardened significantly, such that you can tell the difference running an HSS tool across it. Possibly some headspace growth on all rifles. Actions all jammed and unopenable without mechanical agitation. From the outside, very little noticeable otherwise.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
We did.

Just seeing if we can compare results.

I would like to see you try and blow up a blaser r8.


Mike

Many years ago I tried to blow up an old LE .303, pulled the bullet and dumped the powder and filled the case with Red Dot then replaced the bullet. Tied the rifle to a fence post and pulled the trigger with a long cord (from inside my garage). The rifle didn’t “blow up” but it did freeze the bolt and had brass particles around the bolt and in the magazine well. Never did get the bolt open.

A friend did a Nagant.
I had to ask him again what it took. Brass cases let go at the primer pocket before anything else. he switched to steel cases. Finally got damage with 38 grns of bullseye and the mil bullet seated back.
DPCD has the action now.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
We did.

Just seeing if we can compare results.

I would like to see you try and blow up a blaser r8.


Mike

Mike,

From a German gunsmith who has visited here, he said he knows of 18 Blaser blowing up for no reason at all.

That is why Blaser changed the design.

But, to make you happy, bring one here, and I will be happy to blow it up. for you.

If I cannot, I will give you $10,000!

How about that?

Check this article someone sent me.

And do a search on the NET, there are many photos of this silly contraption falling apart all by itself!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
We did.

Just seeing if we can compare results.

I would like to see you try and blow up a blaser r8.


Mike

Mike,

From a German gunsmith who has visited here, he said he knows of 18 Blaser blowing up for no reason at all.

That is why Blaser changed the design.

But, to make you happy, bring one here, and I will be happy to blow it up. for you.

If I cannot, I will give you $10,000!

How about that?

Check this article someone sent me.

And do a search on the NET, there are many photos of this silly contraption falling apart all by itself!

Stop hoarding all the blasers for yourself Saeed. I know you have a secret cache of your beloved blasers that you enjoy in secret. Use of your beloved blasers

I won’t not destroy my blasers for $10k - use one of your own

But no - you want to save them all for your secret cache

Mike

Sure didn't do it on purpose.

Chambered a NEF HMR to shoot the 5.7FN
necked down to .17.

Loaded the same case ten times with 10.0gr
H110. Fired just fine.

Upped it to 10.1, fired twice fine.

Upped to 10.2gr and blew it open.

Primer pocket blown out to a full 1/4", split the head, broke the firing pin, blew the plastic trigger guard to pieces. Some of them drew small spots of blood on my trigger hand. Nothing serious.

The extractor I think it's called, the L shaped lever broke in half but, it had been thinned down so it would drop below the rim.

I sent the action by itself back to NEF for repairs. They fixed it all but, missed the firing pin. When I contacted them, they sent me four new ones.

Wasn't any permanent damage and I got very lucky at not getting stung in the face.

I've been loading since age 14 in 1958 and never blown one up until this about ten years ago.

George

quote:

Stop hoarding all the blasers for yourself Saeed. I know you have a secret cache of your beloved blasers that you enjoy in secret. Use of your beloved blasers

I won’t not destroy my blasers for $10k - use one of your own

Talk is cheap.

I’d say this one “blew up”

a guy tried this with some oviedo mauser 93s, I think they were the original 7x57 versions. he went progressively hotter and had a great deal of trouble getting any damage. he wanted to test the theory that these actions are no good north of about 40,000 psi. eventually he resorted to pistol powder and he got a case head to fail. it's all on the net someplace, if you do a little searching you can find it.

the Parker Hale has a commercial mauser action, I think PH made the actions themselves. Given the mode of failure, it looks like a through hardened action.

The late tony Barnes and I used a tractor tire and long piece of small rope, Bullseye mostly, and that was back in the day of $7.00 surplus Mausers he bought years before and a few others..

The only one that we never got blown up totally was that Jap job,the Arisaka as I recall, you can't destroy UGLY..about all we got done was a puffy and locked up bolt and a welded case to the chamber after disecting the action with a cutting torch...Those are damn strong actions..Id suggest the strongest ever..

I'm guessing that the BRNO/CZ550 suffered the least damage.

I think the PH actions were made in Spain by Santa Barbera. And true, soft actions like the Spanish 93s are actually harder to "blow up" than a harder one. Of course the lugs set back but that is sort of a safety indicator to stop shooting it; eventually the bolt won't open anyway.
Now, modern actions made from 4140, like the 700, do not react the same.

I have never seen a Rem 700 action blown up. Some came in that were frozen in the locked position. This is the design of modern steel alloy which I think is maybe 4140. I have a new Rem. small action which will get made into a Rug. 204 and I like to shoot max loads for the speed. I fell safe with this action.

We have fired hundreds, probably thousands, of Norma factory ammo in this rifle without any problems whatsoever.

Some history that some of you may not know as most of you were not born back in 1967. A man came into Knights Gun Shop back in 1967 with an action he had made. He wanted to have a barrel installed and being a new action I asked several questions before excepting the job. First what alloy steel was used and was it heat treated properly. He said it was 4340 and steel hardening was done in a shop in Dallas,Tx. I barreled the first proto type that later became the Ranger Arms Co. This was my first contact with Homer Koons which has made several attempts with designing actions. The action was the Texas Magnum long action. A test was made in a lab that shown the push test made it to about 210,000 lbs before any set back. His design was a 3 lug bolt lock up, but the first few actions made had a problem with feeding as their was not a ramp for the shell to guide from the bottom area of the action. That design was changed after I made my comments. Look up the Patents made by Homer Koons and you can see his guns in the early 1968 (?).

I remember the Texas magnums. Seems there was quite a few small manufacturers going back then. Most came and went pretty quickly.

Now looking forward to the next round of Saeed's tests!

If the world supply of micro processers every recovers and I can buy a Pressure Trace system, then I will be blowing up a small pile of Mauser's.

For science.

Mostly 98's, a couple as "controls" and at least one that I had my heat treater over harden to see just what we can run it to.

Also cobbled together at least one 93, and a 91 for giggles.

quote:

A man came into Knights Gun Shop back in 1967

I remember Knights Gun Store in down town Fort Worth. I remember Lou Williamson who gunsmithed there too. I lived in Fort Worth from 1967 to 1972.

Don't look like the barrel was hurt much.

Seeing the action parts I expected to see the
chamber area peeled back or bulged too.

I'm surprised you didn't show a video of it
blowing apart too.

Looks like you found a charge that will do it.

George

I am looking forward to your Enfield report, Saeed. These actions don't get a lot of credit.
Surely that BSA failure would have been fatal to the shooter.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
We did.

Just seeing if we can compare results.

I would like to see you try and blow up a blaser r8.


Mike

Not possible….

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
We did.

Just seeing if we can compare results.

I would like to see you try and blow up a blaser r8.


Mike

Not possible….

Bring one here and let us see.

Damaged her a little, for sure. Any gunsmith worth his salt can get it fixed up for not much more than a minimum charge. Throw in a six pack of favorite suds and he can do it while you wait.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
We did.

Just seeing if we can compare results.

I would like to see you try and blow up a blaser r8.


Mike

Not possible….

Bring one here and let us see.

But you said you have a bunch given to you buy people who don’t like them or don’t want them.

Just use one of those blaser r8. You hate them any way - what you saving them for.

I bet you won’t be able to blow up a blaser r8.

Show us.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
We did.

Just seeing if we can compare results.

I would like to see you try and blow up a blaser r8.


Mike

Not possible….

Bring one here and let us see.

But you said you have a bunch given to you buy people who don’t like them or don’t want them.

Just use one of those blaser r8. You hate them any way - what you saving them for.

I bet you won’t be able to blow up a blaser r8.

Show us.

Mike

Mike,

There is no rifle that cannot be blown up.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
We did.

Just seeing if we can compare results.

I would like to see you try and blow up a blaser r8.


Mike

Not possible….

Bring one here and let us see.

But you said you have a bunch given to you buy people who don’t like them or don’t want them.

Just use one of those blaser r8. You hate them any way - what you saving them for.

I bet you won’t be able to blow up a blaser r8.

Show us.

Mike

Mike,

There is no rifle that cannot be blown up.

very true

but my gut is the blaser r8 is exceptionally strong action.

the r93 was completely redesigned for a reason.

Mike

That video is pretty dramatic.
Yeah blow up a bunch of those Blaser rifles. The previous version pretty much blew up on their own. Those Blaser things are really a abortion of a rifle. Plus, Blaser Group is pushing a bunch of Communist China made sports optics on the American and world markets in a big way that just is wrong! Just watch how much money Sig Optics is spending on the outdoors channel and you will see Sig branded CCP made products (not all Sig sports optics are made in communist China) products around the necks and on their rifles on almost every outdoors hunting program’s personality .The Chinese CCP are trying to buy market share and trying to own the Sports Optic business. We need to get vocal and tell these people we don’t like the CCP and put a stop to the CCP trying to dominate the Sports Optics business . Don’t know about you, but I would hate to see the CCP take over the Sports Optics business like they did with consumer electronics. I will start a thread on this later. Thanks for listening to my tangent. Carry on blowing up some more rifles.
4wD

The only exceptional about the Blasers are the lack of knowledge of its owners!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
50 BMG blowing up

Wow! that guy is lucky to be alive. It looks like that rifle has a bad design if it cant hold up past 95k psi without becoming a pipe bomb.

I was just sent this video today. My thoughts exactly. 85k psi makes it grenade! That's a bad design.

quote:

Originally posted by thecanadian:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
50 BMG blowing up

Wow! that guy is lucky to be alive. It looks like that rifle has a bad design if it cant hold up past 95k psi without becoming a pipe bomb.

Keep in mind the difference in designs. Most guns do not contain the cartridge well enough that the brass survives much past that point. This Serbu contains the cartridge completely. 85k if that number is correct, would be a 50% increase in pressure.

I would point out a design flaw that Scott at Kentucky Ballistics missed and Ian at Forgotten Weapons missed. From what I saw, this Serbu rifle used an end cap with standard V threads. It should have used a buttress thread. If it had a buttress thread, all the more impressive and I would be surprised if that estimated 85k was correct.

Could the design have been better, sure, but like most engineering today it was made good enough.

One other factor. The previous rounds were also an unknown and potentially over pressure. Repeated loading at that pressure will damage or destroy most rifle systems.

I just got word that Pressure Trace systems will be available soon. I’ll work up a Mauser example with 85k, both with a standard breech and a sealed breech. For fun I have a welded 8mm barrel from a demilled rifle that we can use to guarantee the bore obstruction.

Last note, I want to know if the bullet is still in the barrel.

quote:

I just got word that Pressure Trace systems will be available soon. I’ll work up a Mauser example with 85k, both with a standard breech and a sealed breech. For fun I have a welded 8mm barrel from a demilled rifle that we can use to guarantee the bore obstruction.

I look forward to seeing the results of this, also. I'm also glad to hear the pressure trace system will be available again.

I'm surprised at the damage to the action in the pictures, particularly that it seems to have come apart so badly. Thought it would just sag/stretch/yield.

Does gluing the transducer to the barrel damage the barrel?

Or can it be removed without any damage?