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Originally posted by Ol` Joe:
I`ve always believed a slam fire was caused by the bolt hitting a high primer.
It will be interesting to hear others opinions.

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Originally posted by systeme98:
Gatehouse; The key to the beginning of a plausible answer would be in finding the extractor. (in 2 pieces) If the stem is broken the extractor can jump out of the bolt as a result of normal banging into the provided bolt movement stop inside rear of receiver. If this broke at say round 4

Would this have broken because of an overload? Or just because the rifle is 60 years ols and had many thousands of rounds through it?

and the bottom of this shaft fell out at closing on round 5 (this retains the ejector), the ejector will normally leave with the fired (5th) empty. the trajectory of the ejector is over the receiver ring. Old John thought of everything- subsequently the extractor departs while bolt is driving round 6 to chamber, or round 7 . I have inserted a plug into the ejector hole to see what the fired case would do without an ejector. The
M-1 will often function with a thoroughly jammed ejector, pushed to rear in bolt face. The cases roll off over the operating rod,sometimes kicked forward by the hook.
With the retaining shaft gone can the fire pin ignite a primer without hammer falling, and can it stay with the bolt while heading for battery? Yes, and most especially if the bent tail is sufficiently spalled from use that it sticks slightly because of burrs in the bolt notch provided for the tail. The hammer anti-fire if not in full battery prong will strike the cam at bolt rear, missing the fire pin, but in slamming the bolt forward from the blow of the hammer against the cam there is enough distance for a rebound movement of the pin and barely enough energy to ignite primer with the bolt still not turned into battery. The added case volume keeps the case forward in this fire forming and the rifle is in straight blowback mode so you might not have too much bulge at back of case, because pressure is lower, and the case is glued to chamber walls enough so that you did not get separation.
You did not mention if you use a special sizer to attempt getting the case full length sized to nearly unfired specs. This is really a must if you wish to get the most out of the rifle.

I have ust been using standard RCBC dies. As this is the only autoloader I reload for, I wasn't even aware of small base dires until recently. I have heard from a number of people that they use the standard dies for their Garand, though....I full length size so they slide in easily- UNTIL NOW!

Another thing. Get a bright light source to shine into chamber. Look for what appears to be a rather uniform brass plating of the chamber walls. Next think about the granulated brass on the "floor pate inside bottom" (if). Additional clue Fired brass that looks like it had been sand blasted, lightly, then burnished afterwards. This is a sign of frost rust in the chamber. The cause of this is not using the chamber brush to remove ash, cleaning chamber with a patch then lightly oiling the brush to put a thin film of oil on chamber walls. Firing any self loader in an environment of high humidity causes the moisture to imbed in the chamber wall "pores" where it rusts the surface and with repetition is like a soft fine grit sand blast, which invites more rust but puts one helluva strain on the extractor during primary extraction, which makes them break.

I have inspected the chamber with a bore light...It doesn't look rusty or really brass plated, but it is definitely in need of cleaning. I have to admit that it's been about 100 rounds since I cleaned out the chamber. I cleaned the bore just before this range session. There is without a doubt some brass granules in the action. I have cleaned them away many times, and I thought that it was fairly normal??

Usually the hook breaks off about half way up the hook and becomes noticable when brass is left in the chamber with a notch in case rim exactly matching the remainder of the extractor. Don't ask me how I know this, even if inquiring ever so politely. Hint, It is stupid to delay attending your own weapon while being doctor to your team mates rifles, and then during match season running an experiment to see how many rounds you can fire without oil on operating rod or cleaning chamber and bore before you break something. ( ans. 1327)
A real slam to rear in blow back mode can cause the retainer washer holding pointer drum to elevation pinion shaft to flex and release drum, also, the primer whacking fire pin tip can drive it completely from bolt body, before bolt has commenced to rear march, and when the bolt stops the pin can then bounce up and out and that can make the clip do what it did. Except for firing without hammer hitting pin at closing, been there done that, got several tee shirts for the events,
best I can do without more clues. The shiny brass section on the no neck does indicate real resistance to rearward movement and saved you much grief. These things make hardened shooting glasses a convincer. Lucky you!

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Originally posted by systeme98:
Gatehouse, I sure hope you find the extractor because otherwise the butler probably did it.( if
it is damaged as described in previous post) Damages. In firing at closing to battery before the bolt rotates into the lug seats there ought to be discernable setback in the camming notch of the operating rod at top near the flat in the cam pocket. Most visible at rear end, but could also appear at front caused by gas pushing piston and sending the rod to rear while the bolt is also moving. Extractor, even if apparently undamaged, has had its life shortened, not worth worrying by how much, decide that it is hurting and replace. There could be damgage to the cam lug of bolt. If there is little setback in the operating rod cams then it might not have been hurt by much. There is far less possibility of damage to the receiver because it appears to have been operating in blow-back mode.
It sounds as if you have now decided to neck size only. Damned poor solution if the cause originated with cases not sized enough to be close to mil-spec, and if you have the frosted chamber walls as described. Pemberton isn't in the Low humidity Okanogan where some cactus grows if I remember correctly. The rust disease seemed to infect civilian M-1's along the left coast U.S. in disproportionate percent compared to east of the cascades. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it ain't there! Look at the fired brass,inside face of case rim. The extractor should have marked the normal cases 2 times, One visibly deeper than the other. If the case isn't resized enough to permit primary extraction within the origial design perameters it will present more resistance to the primary extraction causing the extractor to bite deeper and even to the point of distorting the rim. If in your sample of a New! Unique! Exciting! case fire-forming method there is only one extractor mark then the extractor had departed its home for new territory. If that case has 2 extractor indents, then its, "Oh Damn"! , 3-4 hours playing with M-1 parts and composing a scenario shot to hell.
'Ol Gene Stoner felt that the M-1 and its child, the M 14, were not just a little but a lot overdone when he was pushing his AR's which turned into our M-16. Not for my money! Each feature had its purpose and If you feed it something close to mil-spec ammo it will always do its part.

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System 98

I'm not neck sizing, I have been completely FL sizing, but in a regular 30-06 die (unless you were being sarcastic. )

The new and exciting fireformed wildcat case rim is so chewed up it's hard to tell. I'll try to post soem close up pics of it later, but it looks like it has 2 marks on it..

I can't find the any of the bolt parts except the firing pin, unfortunately. I was atthe range yesterday and noone had been there since my episode, but it's pretty 'woodsy' there...plenty of places for a metal bit to fly off and be lost.

I'll try attack the chamber with the chamber brush on the weekend, and report what colour the gunk is..In the meantime, I'll post a few more pics to add more clues.

And when I find a source of Garand parts I'll reassemble the bits and pieces and use military primers, and get a small base die for the Garand. Even though I'm mostly into bolt guns, the Garand is one of my favorite rifles to shoot.

If we take one theory, that the ejector was broken, do you think itwas caused by too hot loads? Or just wear and tear? None of the primers seem flattened in the slightest...

Thanks again