The word is out..it's going to be the 25 WSSM for 2004

If true , it's a real dumb choice..........

no way! i always had hoped that they would prduce a 25 wssm. We dont really have a 25 cal. magnum. Well the 25-06 and .257 weatherby could be, the 25-06 a beltless mag. Thats great keep us posted.

They went with the Super Short Mag? Huh, I think everyone was hoping they would do the WSM. Sean

heh..
I built a 257 a couple years ago.. like in 2000... I had to wait till the day the offical drawings were released for the 300 wsm... and I had the reamer 2 weeks later...

it matches 257 woundabeast

jeffe

Just for reference, the case capacity of the WSSM is virtually the same as the Roberts (55 grains). In a mini action length.

Anyone remember when Winchester first came out with the WSM's? The Rem Ultra's were out, and no one could figure out why they would bring out something smaller?

Here, they did it again. It's going to be interesting; could there be a better first deer rifle for Junior or the Missus? Other than the 250 Savage, of course.

Now, if you were Remington, what would your move be? FWIW, Dutch.

I was hoping for a WSM too. If the capacity is the same as a Roberts, what's the benefit? Won't you have to seat the bullets deep? If they make the WSM you should be able to get 257 Weatherby velocity, right? I hope Remington comes out with their short ultra mag in 25!

Bob257

While Remington has been getting their ass whipped in the short mag contest , this move by Winchester will give them a chance to even the score........maybe a 25 RSUM ?

Bob, the benefit is a Roberts in a mini-action. Weight rearward, ideal for youth rifles.

Have you tried to buy Roberts rifles or ammo lately? That's another advantage.

I was in Walmart, yesterday. They had 243WSSM ammo, '06, 7mag, 223, 22-250, and 243. Not even 270! No 308, no 338, nada. Go figure that one out..... Some version of "if you build it, they will come" sort of thing, I suppose. Dutch.

Gentlemen

A perfect solution to a non excisting problem

I guess next years diva will be a 17 WSM

/ JOHAN

Dutch, that action will cut out 3 or 4 ounces and it will do it at the rear. I see no advantage to this. They keep filling holes that are already filled. I think they need some sense stomped into them. I can only imagine that they feel this feeding frenzy to bring out new calibers and people evidently are buying them.

Maybe thay can put out a disclaimer on their press releases. "Attention: this is another of our really stupid new cartridges aimed at the terminally inept hunters who have to have the new caliber d'jour. If you have one iota of common sense please pass it by. Thank you, the management of Winchester/Remington etc."

[ 11-05-2003, 01:49: Message edited by: Customstox ]

Chic,

I totally agree with your assessment of the 25 WSSM, and some of the other cartridges they have come out with as of late.

A few things people might want to keep in mind.

Kurtz Mauser. Winchester Pre-64 M70 in 9mm, 8mm, 35 Rem. All were "who needs 'em" guns and cartridges.

Will that happen here? Probably not, but........

Make a 6.5 WSSM and chamber it on the AR platform, and I'll be interested.

Chic, sure, it cuts the weight at the rear, but that means it brings the total weight of the rifle to the rear. I do believe that you will save a little more weight than that, but I am not looking for weight savings. I am looking to bring the weight closer to the shooter, so the balance is right for smaller stature shooters.

When we talk about "weight between the hands", we are talking about average sized arms. With young shooters, those hands can't reach as far forward, which means the balalance is wrong. Big time, wrong.

Shorten the stock, shorten the action (and going from a standard '06 action to a mini action IS significant) and you move the center of gravity almost to the point where it is supposed to be, for shorter shooters.

The tradtional way (the model "7" way, if you will) is to cut the barrel off at 20 inches. That makes the gun harder to control, and increases the muzzle blast. Significantly shortening the action is a MUCH sounder solution to the problem.

Of course, if you don't like it, don't buy it. For beginning shooters, it's hard to imagine a better choice, but not too many of them hang out here.......... JMO, Dutch.

Hmmm, just two days ago my plain old Rem 721 270 Win dropped the seasons first criiter (a nice blackbuck that strolled onto a friends ranch). Winchester figured it out nearly 80 years ago...

You guys can crap on the WSM all you want, but they are damn accurate. Friend of mine has a M70 featherweight .270wsm and his reloads are incredible at the range. The best 3 shot target is 3/8" and one of the worst is still under 1".

I remember all these arguements along with "the 243 is too small for deer" and "you need a magnum for blahblahblah".

Hype is what sells guns, thats why people read the gun rags and buy the big magnums to hunt whitetails.

.25 WSSM, you say?

ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

New calibres worry me a bit thats why I try and just stick to tried and true as I not want the hassle of having a gun with little or no supply of brass. I just have a feeling that these rounds will head that way evetually and people will still be buying and shops will still have components for 25/06's. 375 H&H's .300 win mags, .243's .223's etc.

If I could be guaranteed remchester would always promise a supply of components dies & brass well then one could get a little more excited.

Dutch, the short action Winchester is 1 1/2 to 2 ounces lighter than the normal length action per Winchester. What you are removing is the rail section, it will not be any lighter than quoted, the front bridge will still be there as will the rear. And when you take weight away from the action and do nothing anywhere else, the weight distribution does the opposite of what you want. The weight forward becomes greater in comparison, not less.

Chic, any way you want to phrase it, if you move the weight closer to the shooter, you are moving the fulcrum point closer to the shooter. Dutch.

Somebody having trouble getting a LA model 70 to balance? Last time I checked there wasn't any such dilemma.

Chuck

[ 11-05-2003, 03:13: Message edited by: Chuck Nelson ]

Dutch,
If you remove metal closer to the shooter, the fulcrum moves forward. I see what you are talking about but I would bet that any movement one way or the other would be very negligible because of the offsetting changes, shortening vs, less weight to the rear. Damn, a teacher and an engineer arguing, who would have guessed it.

BTW, heading to your wonderful state on Friday. Spending that night with friends in Grangeville and then off to Cascade for our annual trip into the "Frank". If nothing else the weather will be brisk.

[ 11-05-2003, 18:27: Message edited by: Customstox ]

Dutch, the reason you couldn't find those "standard" chamberings at WallyWorld is cause it's hunting season and they're sold out... what you see left on the shelves is the stuf nobody's shooting.

FWIW, I've had two 300 WSM's. Neat round. Heck, I like the entire WSM lineup though it's unecessary. However, the WSSM's amplify the inherant problems of the WSM's in regards to feeding. As to weight and balance I believe you're straining knats to justify a purchase

All I can say is that I'm so relieved. I was afraid they'd take all that money they're going to spend on tooling up new rifles, advertising, and God knows what else and spend it on improving the fit, finish and out-of-the-box accuracy of their current crop of rifles.

I can only pray that Remington can also avoid that pitfall and quickly introdue their next newest .244444 Soshortyouneedtweeserstopickitupmagnum.

Hey Chic, have a great time. I actually graduated from High School in Grangeville. Wish there was a way to make a decent living there.....

't was 3 degrees this morning..... hope you brought warm thoughts.... LOL! Get a big one, Dutch.

Dutch,
You could get a job feeding the wolves. They are now confirmed on Craig Mountain, 25 miles from Lewiston.
By the way, deer have been dropping like flies here in the Clearwater region. From a disease caused by gnats. Bet that will cut out alot of second deer tags. Pete

.257WSM interests me...however a 6.5 wsm interests me more.

swede