I'm embarking on a project to utilize an orphan pre-war '03 Springfield action. Having a baker's dozen of .30-06 Springfields, I want something different and have decided on making it a .22 Hornet, in the style of G&H's depression-era "econo sporters". I'm aware of needing to modify the bolt face with an adapter ring to capture the small rim, and extending the extractor hook. My question concerns the coned breech - it is intended for a rimless cartridge, but can it be utilized as-is for a small rimmed cartridge?

If not, then how about a shallow bushing installed to provide a solid flat face to support the entirety of the rimmed case. Just enough of one, leaving a bit of the original "cone" to allow insertion/closing of the original bolt head?

Note also I'll be creating the barrel by using an original NRA Sporter barrel (it has a sewer pipe bore, so no sacrilegious destroying of an artifact), and lining it with a .22 centerfire liner from TJ's (.224/1-14 twist). At 1/2" diameter there's plenty of "meat" to accomodate a Hornet. Choice of barrel driven by the fact that an NRA Sporter barrel has a somewhat heavier contour than a Service rifle barrel, and it needs to fit the stock that's inletted for the NRA Sporter barrel.

Thoughts? I have all the components to achieve this - including a proper M1922 Springfield stock, buttplate, and barrel band.

I'd recommend contacting Mr. Wisner, if I remember correctly he was planning on or was making some of the necessary parts for the conversion.

Pre War; all 1902 Springfields are pre war. Remington 1903s, are wartime as are all A3s.

1902?? I never said "1902"! I said pre-war 1903 because that's what it is, not a wartime '03, Remington or otherwise. (But in fact my question applies no matter what iteration of 1903 Springfield it is. They all used the same coned breech system.)

Maybe you could hunt up a Winchester 54 or 70 in 22 Hornet and see how they did it. DeHass' book might have a sketch of the Win/Hornet bbl shank.
Hope these files will post.

Some info I have on the Model 70 Hornet Bolt, and a sketch of the Model 54 breech in 30-30.

You're oh-so-right. Like an idiot I didn't think to look inside my M54 Hornet and .30-30. The .30-30 has a "normal" standard bolt face, but a flat barrel breech face as shown in the diagram. The Hornet though may well have answered my question: its barrel breech face is coned entirely like its .30-06 big brother, so evidently the Hornet can survive in that "environment". But, it can only do so by "coning" the bolt head to allow it to protrude in there to support the Hornet case entirely in steel right up to the rim. Pic of M54 bolt face (can't weasel the camera in there to get a shot of the barrel end but trust me it's coned):



Another gun in my collection is an '03 converted to R2 Lovell, rimmed wildcat. They solved the issue by making the barrel partially coned, enough to allow the nose of the bolt to butt up close to the back of the chamber, and fitted a small ring in the bolt face to capture the rim of the cartridge.




On the face of it, I may have answered my own question. But the conundrum remains: If I install the steel ring in my '03 bolt face to capture the Hornet rim, would it work safely with a tiny bit of the Hornet case unsupported due to a simple coned breech setup (like the .30-06 does in that home environment), or would I be smart to create a half coned-half flat faced barrel breech face as shown in the bottom pic, to fully support the entire cartridge right up to the rim? I wish I had access to a Sedgley .22 Hornet based on the '03 to see how they did it.

Here is a converted 1903 low number action to the mighty 5.56 x 35R cartridge, also known as 22 Hornet



I used a Pre 64 M70 Hornet magazine insert to make this one feed.
A new bolt head, Extractor, and a M70 Cartridge pusher was used for the caliber conversion
I have a Shilen # 2 contour barrel that will be installed on it to finish the barreled action out

Here are the conversion parts I made up



Note I have not cut the ejector slot in the bolt head, this is so it can be used with either the 1903 type ejector, which needs to be made longer, or the M70 type ejector is you are lucky enough to find those magazine parts.

Have had a couple of inquirys about using the Savage 340, or Winchester 43 magazine box, that could be done as well

You have to remember that the breech cone angle for the Hornet is NOT the same as the normal 30-06 breech cone.
When I chamber a Hornet using the M70 breech cone, I fit the cone so the bolt will just close, with maybe .005" gap between the two.
Then chamber and head space, normally the rim will just cut into the cone enough for the headspace gage to sit into the small notch.
Once head spaced I come back and remove another .005" from the outside of the beech cone down into the very small rim recess the reamer cut.
Once all polished there is not enough of a bump to cause feed issues.
I also only neck size my Hornet cases, trying to leave the shoulder alone, so I can get a nice head spacing of the case on the very small rim recess, and the shoulder of the case

Enjoy.

James Wisner

I always learn something from your posts Jim.

My sincere thanks, Jim. Marvelous job of work, as always. I'm constantly impressed by your work and presentations thereof.

Thinking about it some more since I posted earlier, I'm going to proceed by copying the system some unknown gunsmith employed in my '03 R2 Lovell, by installing a bushing in the coned breech to provide the flat face shown in the inside pic of the R2 action (mimicking the obviously scratch-built barrel they used in the R2), and then boring through it at the same time I bore/ream for the 1/2"OD liner. Then install liner and chamber it. The trick will lie in accurately measuring the distances/dimensions involved - the execution thereof is within my skill set. Obviously doing all that bushing and lining work would not be a great idea for a larger diameter high pressure cartridge but I'm confident it'll suffice for the tiny Hornet.

Two reasons: A) I'm committing myself to employing the takeoff NRA Sporter barrel, as stated in my original post, for reasons best known to me (so a fresh new barrel purpose made for the project isn't in the cards), and, B) Creating a new M70-style bolt head to fit into the end of the '03 bolt body is waaaay beyond my skill set and the cost of having it done off-site would be outside my means.

Thanks to all who are contributing their thoughts to this project!

Gary

Note also I have no intention of making it a repeater. As I understand it, originally the '03 coned breech was adopted mainly to facilitate 100% reliable feeding from the magazine.

I know you stated that you have your reasons for utilizing the NRA Sporter barrel, but I do have a new manufacture 1922 barrel, 1-14 twist, .224 groove. The 1922 barrel is basically a 03 barrel with a longer tenon. I made up a batch of these several years ago and have one remaining. If interested drop me a PM.

Good luck with the project. I kinda have a thing for those Springfield Hornets. I'll match your bakers dozen 06 Springfield's with Hornet conversions. I do have a Sedgley built on a 1903 in my collection, let me know if you would like me to try to get some pictures of it or look at how it was done.

John

Ok, relax; the 1902 was obviously a mistype. I know....
However, you know what I mean; all Springfield Armory 1903s are pre world war 2, which was my point. (Although there were Model 1901 and 1902 Springfields, (page 14, Brophy's book) so I guess it is not totally incorrect after all)
Anyway, the cone breech was another misguided and unnecessary change we did to the 1893 Mauser that we copied the 1903 Springfield from, and were found guilty of patent infringement, and had to pay Mauser $100K for.
No Mauser ever had a coned breech and none of them have any feeding problems. And, even though we copied the salient features of the 93 Mauser, and the clip loading feature, everything we changed, was for the worse. Most notably, the two piecer firing pin and the stupid safety lug. And the coned breech was not a good idea either.