I recently picked up a Winchester low wall project that the former smith never completed.
It's in 218 Mashburn bee, I'm not all that excited about that caliber.
Along with re-barreling and restocking I'm looking at either 25-35 or 30-30.
My question for this forum is:
Is a low wall action strong enough for 25-35 or 30-30 using established known load data for either of those cartridges.

I have no idea as I am as far from an expert as you can get. But as I also have a "project" low wall so I'm curious as to the responses you get. My gut feeling is that those cartridges are too much pressure for that action.

Answer is No.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Answer is No.

In that case I'll stick with the Mashburn bee after reading on another forum I'll give it a try.

the mashburn bee is a favorite of mine but can be loaded to higher pressure than i would use in an old lowall so be a bit careful it is a easy case form just fire form the brass

I have a#1 in 218 Bee, fun and accurate. SAAMI max for the std Bee is 40,000 CUP.

I read on another forum were Frank De'haas rated the low wall for 45,000.

I was reading your post and wondered what the limitations are on the low wall. According to De'Haas book Single Shot Rifles he indicated that the low wall was developed for 45,000 or less pressure. Such as .22 long rifle, .22 W.R.M. , .22 Hornet, .218 Bee, .22 Jet, .256 Magnum, ,25-35, and ,357 Magnum (book quote).
The book was written in 1969 so there may be other cartridges that fit in that bracket. Hope this helps some.
Good luck on the build, I would love to have one.

Addendum
I looked up the low wall in Franks more recent book, Single shot Gunsmithing 1983. He still listed the same cartridges in it as well.

Whether an action is strong enough for a given caliber is not only a function of the pressure but also the area that pressure is enacted upon.

Thus you need to consider both pressure and case diameter.

The reason is that the pressure is not acting directly on the action. For most of the action (apart from the receiver "ring"), the load is coming from the thrust generated by the case head, and is thus a factor of the area of the inside of the case and the pressure. My opinion is that, for safety's sake the calculation should be done by using the area of the outside diameter of the chamber, because that determines the load in the event of a case head separation. But that's just my personal cautious nature.

I have no dog in this fight. But when I go look at a new production Winchester with modern metal and they chamber the 30/30 in only the high wall. I think I would take that as a good starting point. The chamberings they use in the low wall are all 35,000 or less if I read my data right.

I wouldn't shoot a Bee or a 30-30 or 25-35 in an original low wall. The newer version is an entirely different design and has been chambered in powerful cartridges.

quote:

Originally posted by Rolland:
I was reading your post and wondered what the limitations are on the low wall. According to De'Haas book Single Shot Rifles he indicated that the low wall was developed for 45,000 or less pressure. Such as .22 long rifle, .22 W.R.M. , .22 Hornet, .218 Bee, .22 Jet, .256 Magnum, ,25-35, and ,357 Magnum (book quote).
The book was written in 1969 so there may be other cartridges that fit in that bracket. Hope this helps some.

Addendum
I looked up the low wall in Franks more recent book, Single shot Gunsmithing 1983. He still listed the same cartridges in it as well.

You provided the only credible answer to this question. By quoting from actual published data you've added credibility to a question I asked numerous times before having my 1892 built low-wall relined to .38 Special. I wish I had seen you post and stepped it up to .357 Magnum~!

Really? I answered your specific question on day one. You didn't ask me about a 357 Magnum.

quote:

Originally posted by Rolland:
According to De'Haas book Single Shot Rifles...............

I have his book.

But...

Does anyone know if Frank ever did any gunsmithing? You know, actually making chips barreling rifles, etc...

quote:

Originally posted by dwcars:

quote:

Originally posted by Rolland:
I was reading your post and wondered what the limitations are on the low wall. According to De'Haas book Single Shot Rifles he indicated that the low wall was developed for 45,000 or less pressure. Such as .22 long rifle, .22 W.R.M. , .22 Hornet, .218 Bee, .22 Jet, .256 Magnum, ,25-35, and ,357 Magnum (book quote).
The book was written in 1969 so there may be other cartridges that fit in that bracket. Hope this helps some.

Addendum
I looked up the low wall in Franks more recent book, Single shot Gunsmithing 1983. He still listed the same cartridges in it as well.

You provided the only credible answer to this question. By quoting from actual published data you've added credibility to a question I asked numerous times before having my 1892 built low-wall relined to .38 Special. I wish I had seen you post and stepped it up to .357 Magnum~!

My original 'low wall'(1892)is back in my hands with a converted breech block, a relined barrel (.38 Special), and refinished stock and forearm. It turned out great. I'm now thinking about having the receiver laser engraved to further enhance its beauty.

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:

quote:

Originally posted by Rolland:
According to De'Haas book Single Shot Rifles...............

I have his book.

But...

Does anyone know if Frank ever did any gunsmithing? You know, actually making chips barreling rifles, etc...

I do not know, as a fact, that DeHass actually did gun work. He wrote and got published more books than just the one referred to in this thread, including a book of Single Shot Rifle Plans, that could be made in the home hobby shop. On many gun problems, he made a lot of sense.

My opinion, is that DeHaas was a talented writer, and a home basement type gunsmith, with minimal skill and experience. He writes plainly and as said "makes sense", but only from the perspective of his limited experience.

I don't think he was conservative enough in his recommendations on converting cheap, weak guns for more modern calibers. He wrote a lot of that leaning into his audience, which was returning WWII guys that wanted guns they couldn't afford, and that were self-reliant enough to do the work themselves. Looking at it from todays perspective where you can't buy a low wall for $30 and a rolling block for $12, but you can buy a modern savage bolt action for $300; his recommendations are nonsense. But for the time, they made sense, and there was less liability handed out for recommendations made that were unsound. Plus, he didn't do the conversions himself where they could be traced back to him and he could be blamed.

On the original topic: An original low wall isn't strong enough for a 25-35 or .30-30. More appropriate for a .25-20 or a .32-20. Marginal for .22 hornet.

Max pressure for the .35 Rem is 33K, OK for a low wall?

quote:

Originally posted by Recoil Rob:
Max pressure for the .35 Rem is 33K, OK for a low wall?

My opinion, no! too big a case diameter, and too high pressure, given the size.