Confession time.

I've been using a lantern type toolpost forever.

Just ordered an Aloris knockoff...and am thinking about making the jump to indexable tools for both turning and threading.

Don't know enough about them, and only get confused when I'm flipping through MSC/Enco/Etc. I've never worked with carbide, as I've never had the need for what I do.

I guess I can figure out what bit goes with what holder, based on the alphabet soup numbers...but the different radius' etc. has me scratching my head. I haven't been able to find a beginners guide...and all my machine shop books are "pre" insert tooling.

Anyway, looking for some recommendations here for what is working for you, for general machine work - turning barrel tenons and threading and general screwing around.

I'm currently running a 10" Clausing, fairly lightweight machine(about a 1000 lbs).

If you have the MSC catalog, look for the technical tips phone number. If you explain to them what you intend to do, they will give a solid recommendation on the tooling.

Carbide tooling works best with a heavy load and lots of surface speed. Hard to do on the small old machinery found in many gun shops. A small nose radius will help increase the chip load, as will speed and a heavy cut. Where carbide really shines in my opinion is threading. Get the inserts that cut a full thread form. Also, where possible get ground inserts, they are more money, but are much sharper and I can generally get a better finish with them, particularly with light cuts. I have also found that coated inserts do not gain you anyting on light machines. Maybe in a production environment, but not in the small gunshop. Hope that helps.

John

As just mentioned.....carbide is primarily for higher surface feet and heavier cuts.......and this mostly in larger CNC machines that are extremely rigid and strong.

I like my Aloris tooling but still grind HSS (cobalt) 3/8 square bits to several shapes and use them as though they was an indexable bit.....Easy to hand gring when dull and I don't buy inserts....

If you like carbide I'd far rather see one use it on the milling machine.....At least my lathe just isn't able to make use of the carbide advantages.

Been reading since my initial posts...

I see what you are all saying about carbide, the necessary working speed and the cutting depths.

What about the HSS inserts that are available?

http://www.arwarnerco.com/

http://www.arwarnerco.com/warner_products_kits_turning.html

Carbide really shines when you are making long cuts on tough to cut materials. The HSS will often wear out before the end of the cut.
304&316 stainless steels and nickle alloys will toast HSS quickly. Carbide is also useful for getting under scale on forgings and castings. The scale is so abrasive it will knock the edge off of HSS. It will also dull carbide but if the first cut is deep enough you can put the wear high up on the flank of the tool so finishing passes are not affected. (This was with a 48 inch Bullard that would cut 9/16" deep on a side with a boring bar using 1" square inserts.)

Generally you can run the surface feet per minute of carbide tools 2 to 3 times faster with carbide than with HSS.
You can also learn to turn without learning to grind your own tools with carbide, but grinding your own tools is an important skill to learn.

What size tool will your new tool post take (1/2", 3/4")?
Once you go to carbide you'll never look back.
You can get by with only a few OD tools. You'll need a TNMG332 with a 5 degree lead, an SNMG tool to bevel with, a threading tool (I like the top notch style), a left hand TNMG tool to bevel threads and a part off tool. For internal bevels I use a brazed threading tool.
For internal use your machine is small so I would just use TMPT style screw on inserts.
Call Kennametal 800-446-7738 and tell them to send you a catalog. You'll probally never get a better catalog that will explain every thing to you.

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:
Generally you can run the surface feet per minute of carbide tools 2 to 3 times faster with carbide than with HSS.

This is true and then some......HSS on 4140 steel can be run roughly 75'/minute and I've used carbide at 1100'/minute on the same material on a rigid CNC machine........results do indeed vary!

As to the HSS inserts.....I must admit.....I really need to look into them

I think there are very few people who still use HSS cutters for wood, either on saws or routers. On both wood and metal the carbide cutters stay sharp much longer, and are easily replaced. If you look, inserts are sometimes found at deeply discounted prices on ebay.

The two places where HSS still shines are special form cutters that can be ground to a contour and on interupted cuts. Try turning a steel plate that has been cut with a torch (and has hard spots) and you will find it really eats carbide. Both the brazed tools and the inserts do not like shock and seem to chip.

It is true that carbide allows increased metal removal with heavier rigid equipment, but they cut just fine with slower, lighter cuts on lighter tools.

My advice is to find someone with a machine like yours and see what works for them. I have a LeBlond Regal and a Vernon mill, both are old, and neither would be called heavy duty.

I use the same TPG 221 and 222 inserts on kennametal holders in the lathe and on 2 inch face and end mills. I am sure there are others that work as well or better, this is what I stumbled on and they work just fine. Because I don't grind end mills, most of the taper, the ball and the smaller end mills I have are carbide.

Roger

Good HHS tool bits can be ground from the following:

in ascending difficulty to grind
Rex 95
Mo-Max Cobalt
Vasco Supreme

Rex 95 would still be good for home shop use but I prefer the Mo-Max Cobalt.
Vasco Supreme holds an edge better but is tough to grind.

For production turning I don't think anyone uses HSS any more unless you hand grind a form tool to plunge into aluminum or brass.

fireball168, I have been using the indexable tooling for a couple of years. My toolpost is a PhaseII (Aloris knockoff). I bought a couple of sets of tool holders from Enco. These are the sets of 5 holders that hold a triangular insert. My holders are Enco number 250-1401. The inserts I buy are Enco carbide triangular inserts, #321 and 322.

Occasionally I still grind a HSS tool and use my lantern tool holder, but for the bulk of work that I do, I use the indexable tool holders and the carbide. I don't normally speed the lathe up when I use the carbide, but I suppose I could. I get a good surface finish at the same speeds that I use HSS on, so I just don't worry about it. Buy 1/64" radius inserts (321) for your first set and 1/32" (322) for another set. That will take care of most turning needs, and between the two you can find one that will give you a good finish. The 1/64" radius inserts (321) are great for threading also.

As you can see from the photos below, the holders have the inserts at different angles, and once you have set the cutting height of your tool, you can remove and replace holders without having to reset the tools.





Clemson

quote:

Originally posted by Clemson:




Clemson

Was this taken just for a quick example of how the insert could be used, or is this the way you actually set this barrel up for threading?

Matt: I was actually cutting the safety breech in a prethreaded, short-chambered barrel on this shot. This was for fitting to a Yugo M48. That operation left the boss on the end that was then slotted for the extractor. Here is a shot of the end of the barrel after I cut the extractor relief in it:



Clemson

Thanks!

I just got the Phase 2 as well. Need to get the T-nut cut for my compound, I don't have my mill moved up here yet.

Will likely try the Enco's you recommend here. Just out of curiosity...what "grade" do you run on the inserts?

C5 and C6.

Good luck!

Clemson

What nobody uses TIN bits ?. C-2 C-6 Carbide bits Cobalt M2 HSS TIN coated work very well on hardened surfaces . My $ 0.025 Worth ...