What are the pros and cons of steel butt plates?
Do you guys like the neidener style butt plates or the skeleton with checkering style butt plate?What would you guess-Out of a hundred custom built rifles how many would be steel butt plate vs rubber recoil pad?Are they just for tradition or is steel really better?For hunting only rifles which only get shot a couple times on hunts,will a steel plate be just as good as rubber?

no con only pro.
I like the solid butts they fell better on my sholder. they slide into position and do not get hung up on my clothes.

Funny how differetly people see things. It may have a lot to do with climate and the type/amount of clothing worn during hunting season?
I hate the way a smooth steel plate slides around on my shoulder. I'd rather have a pad or at least a hand-checkered steel plate, not the cast ones that don't "bite". OTOH, I love the look of the skeleton plates but I would beat all that wood checkering flat in a couple of season's use.
I've thinking of heel & toe plates with broad horizontal gooving between for the next rifle.

I have a Biesen steel buttplate (trap version) on my fine Tucker-stocked .270 Win., and I've owned many pre-64 Model 70s with factory-original steel SBPs, as well as other custom rifles with SBPs.

To be honest with you, SBPs are mostly an exercise in cosmetic anointment. Rubber recoils pads are more practical from just about every standpoint of consideration. They are more weather resistant (one less thing to fuss over); they protect the rifle better; they protect you better; they keep the rifle from sliding off the shoulder better.

Some of the SBP-related hoops I've seen guys jump through for the sake of cosmetic gratification are simply unbelievable, and unbelievably impractical. One guy I know has a set of rifles [a .270 Win. and a .338 Win. (!)] , each with a Biesen SBP, and to shoot that .338 Win. from the bench with 250 gr. loads is an exercise that'll bring tears to your eyes with the first pull of the trigger, believe me!

Another guys I know had a truly beautiful Al Biesen .338 Win. built with a SBP, simply because he liked the looks and didn't want any more beautiful wood removed than was absolutely necessary. But to compensate for the recoil factor, he had Biesen install or have installed a Pendleton muzzle break. Cosmetically and performance-wise, he'd have been better off with a rubber pad and no muzzle break!

Jack O'Connor didn't like recoil and wasn't afraid to admit it, but he still let cosmetics take over anyway. His light .30-06 rifles had SBPs, and so did his Biesen-built 7mm Rem. Mag. I guess he loved appearances more than he hated recoil.

Anyhow, no more SBPs for me. The .270 I mentioned is the last I'll ever own. Form follows function..........

AD

Allen you got me thinking,Do the double rifle hunters who shoot the big kickers/470 put rubber recoil pads on those expensive rifles?seems like alot come from the factory with plastic butt plates ?The big kickers seem like they would be murder on the shoulder with steel? Anyone ever shoot a heavy double without a rubber pad?For sighting in ,those leather slip/lace on pads look like they would be the ticket or a past recoil shoulder pad...

All of the double rifles I've been around in Africa dangerous game chamberings wear rubber pads, and I have NEVER seen an African PH with any bolt or double rifle that was equipped with anything other than a pad.

Double shot guns often wear steel or hard plastic buttplates, though, plus drillings on occasion and a few light-caliber double rifles in deer-type chamberings.........

AD

I guess that's why Merkel doubles come standard with platic plates, they're made by a scatter gun company. Honestly, I have no other idea why they would make a rubber pad an option on a 470 Nitro Express.
The heel and toe plates are a shotgun thing too.

I think they look cool, but they are not the most secure butt treatment for a rifle. By that I mean that a pd is a lot more "grippier" when satnding a rifle up or even when putting it to the shoulder. I have several rifles with steel butt paltes and they definitely slip and slide more than any pad. Some are checkered and some are grooved, but all are more slipery than a pad. Even a Silvers pad makes a notciable reduction in the effects fo recoil on th eshoulder.

But man, the metal plates look cools. I have a skeleton plate stock in the pipeline right now. The others all have pads

The only rifle I have had custom built for ME is a 7x57 with a Niedner steel butt plate. The first rifle I ever built(50+ yrs ago) had a Niedner steel Buttplate. Guess just nostalgia but they definitely LOOK good and better than ANY recoil pad. I would not put one on a heavy recoiling rifle although my 470 Merkel came with a hard rubber butt plate. Changed immediately to a Decellerator.

If you accidentally drop a rifle with a steel butt plate, the stock is more likely to split or chip than if you drop a rifle with a rubber butt plate because rubber absorbs shock and steel transfers it (to the wood).

I prefer steel buttplates. To me they have a look of quality. The first stock that I made for myself had some really nice "marblecake" figure well back in the butt. I did not want to cut any more of it off than necessary, so I fit a Neidner plate. It took awhile, but it came out really nice. I really like the contour of a steel plate versus the relatively straight butt of a pad.
I don't often hunt in shirtsleeves, and if I did, I might feel differently. I also have plenty of natural padding over my bones . I use a PAST shoulder pad for benchwork anyway so it is not an issue there either.

Glen,
I agree. I have one on a 7X57 and it is not uncomfortable bench shooting. I have never noticed it hunting. I like the looks of it and the feel. It follows the "function" for me just fine. I did do one a long time ago on a 35 Whelen and it needed some padding when sighting in. The guy who bought it from me was going to take it off but after shooting it in the field he was not going to bother changing it. He hunts a great deal with it says it is there to stay.

When I started out shooting all rifles had steel or aluminum butt plates. I still remember the part of my first big bore match where I used the clubs Springfield with ball ammo. I had on a 10X shooting coat that has a shoulder pad. Even then I made my mind up right there to get a 243 for that shooting.

Very few match shooters followed and the .30 cal remained the most popular thru the 70's.

When I see a pre 64 M70 for sale I prefer the ones with a pad added as long as the LOP is good.

I have a few safe queens with metal butt plates. And they wonder why the .358 Win did not catch on in the 70 Featherweight!

Steel butt plates have one use. To knock out teeth & to knock in doors.

I like rubber pads for sure !!

sbp's look great but thats it.

Doug you woos, you Louisiana boys are supposed to be tough as nails, lol. Or are you just smart?

quote:

To be honest with you, SBPs are mostly an exercise in cosmetic anointment. Rubber recoils pads are more practical from just about every standpoint of consideration. They are more weather resistant (one less thing to fuss over); they protect the rifle better; they protect you better; they keep the rifle from sliding off the shoulder better.

My feelings exactly.

Allen

Any chance of you posting a photo of that Tucker stocked .270?

Steel butt plates are a thing of beauty and I like them on any rifle, some of my rifles have them...The down side of them is they tend to slip and fall if you stand them in a corner or against something on a slick surface like a wood floor or linoliam or tile.

As to recoil, a soft pad just gives the gun a running start at your shoulder. If you hold a steel butt hard on your shoulder it will not hurt you..I have shot 458s and a couple of 375s with steel buttplates along with a few others and found them acceptable...I always use London Guns pads on my custom stocked big bores as I leather cover them, and they are as hard as the wood or a steel butt...

Recoil is a personal thing with each of us, and my shoulder is tough as wang leather, but I have tender pink cheeks and don't like getting wacked in the cheek or nose or getting my neck snapped....

I think the steel Neidner type butt plates are a thing of beauty and I like them on any rifle..

Mostly I used London guns or Silvers pads on my rifle stocks and leather cover them, and they are about as hard as steel...

Recoil does not bother my shoulder, its the other stuff like a wack in my rosy cheek or a thumb in the nose and even muzzle blast from short barrel...

For about 99% of the folds a good soft pad is probably correct...Belk tells me that a soft recoil pad just gives the gun a running start at your shoulder, and I agree with that if the gun is held too loosly, at least with big bores.

What a boring world we'd live in if not for cosmetic appeals. We would all drive white cars with black steel wheels, marry women with one long eyebrow who wear burlap skirts. etc etc etc...........

quote:

As to recoil, a soft pad just gives the gun a running start at your shoulder.

You make it sound like a rubber pad makes a rifle accelerate during recoil.......

Try physics 101.

Steel buttplates are a waste of $. A leather covered rubber pad works better and looks better.

My 14 year old fired 80 rounds from the bench through my pre-64 30-06 in a single sitting last weekend. Didn't bother him. That rifle never bothered me to shoot over the past 30 years either and I like the looks of the steel butt plate. I have a leather covered pad on my custom 7x57. That really makes it a kitten to shoot although in all honesty it is there for cosmetic reasons. My .338 and .375 wear a Limbsaver and Decellerator respectively. At that level I think the pad makes sense and both are very comfortable to shoot. I'm not so sure that in lighter calibers the real benifit of a recoil pad isn't psycological.

Jeff

I had an old M98 once that had a steel butt plate. It was a beautiful rifle. That "cosmetic gratification" never once hindered me from taking game with that rifle. I do see some merit in the function over form argument. But, taken to it's absolute end, you'll end up with a SS/Plastic rifle with no soul. No thanks, a nice rifle equals a more enjoyable hunt for me. If you like the steel butt plate, I'd say get it. The next project I'm starting will be a 7X57 and it will have a skeleton plate.

Terry

'06 and under, steel plates. Anything bigger, pad.

Anyone know of a sourse for the Biesen style trap door steel plate? Biesen probably sells them but are they available commercially? I've checked Midway and Brownells.

'06 and under, steel plates. Anything bigger, pad.

My thoughts exactly.

I am reminded by what someone once said when he was having a beautiful 375 Weatherby built on a Remington 1917. When asked what kind of a pad he wanted on it he replied, "put a steel plate on it. A rubber recoil pad on a beautiful rifle is like putting on a nice evening suit to go out for dinner and wearing a pair of rubber overshoes with it!!".

vigillinus, good assesment

Snowcat, I believe they are only available through Biesens. They do make them in Al's basement shop. I have been there and seen Roger working on them. They are $100.

Biesen butt plate link

Speaking of "butt plates I've seen in Africa" I would like to tell you of one I saw in Shinyanga, Tanzania last September. A local asked me to sight in a scope he had mounted on a Brno in .458 WinMag. I said OK and we set up a time and place for a few days later. I wish I had had my camera with me when he showed up. The rifle is a testimony to the sturdiness of the Mauser based design. It probably had seen a lot of bush time and had probably never been cleaned. Rust everywhere. I wiped off the bolt with an oily rag from the engine on our 4X4 and cycled it a few times, everything worked. Then I looked at the butt; no butt pad left, just the two screws sticking out of the wood. I asked him if the two screw-heads sticking out of the wooden rifle butt didn't bother him when firing. Answer, "NO". I fashioned a sissy-pad out of a leather jacket and got it to zero in three shots. A couple of holes in the leather jacket of course (his) and gave the rifle back to him.

Congratulations Wink, you just joined into a conspiracy to poach elephants!! and yes even if he was a gamescout!!

Chic-
Thanks, as always.
Jay Kolbe

Ray, Just when I thought I was contributing to technology transfer to an underdeveloped country you bring up poaching and conspiracies. As for game scout poaching, gosh, what can I say. There are a few other civil servant integrity problems in Tanzania as well. Good thing nobody in the US ever bends the rules as this allows us to be shining examples. I certainly don't condone it and I never get asked to participate in administrative culls, not even for Topi or warthogs. Although I admit it would be hard to say no.