Has anyone come up with a reasonably good metal finishing technique that can be done with minimal equipment? I've got the polishing covered. It's the actual final finish I'm after.

Slow rust blue takes little equipment and can be done on a budget, but it's a lot of work.

Brownell's bake on finishes. Comes in spray cans,easy to apply and to promote marital harmony, you can make a curing oven from plywood and an electric heater from a yard sale.

Total cost;
heater-$5
plywood- 9.95
emory cloth-4.95
denatured alcohol-3.95
baking thermometer-3.95
baking lacquer- 9.95+shipping

1 can of lacquer will do 2-3 long guns.
1 can of alcohol will degrease 3-4.
1 roll of emory cloth will rough up 3-4.
The curing oven ought to last forever.

I'm getting ready to do 2 more rifles this month.

I am going to be trying the Lauer Duracoat matte black in the next couple weeks. I figure that if i can get through the learning curve on this, I can try a non-traditional finish like a camo.

It too requires a heater, as it says, in various places, 108 (baking or a june day in houston) or 180.

jeffe

I had Lauer do my rifle in Duracoat. It's a lot better than a couple others I've tried. They didn't charge much so I let them apply it. From what I can tell proper application is everything.

Gun Kote is excellent & comes in a varity of colors. http://www.kgcoatings.com/gun-kote/

I have an anti-recommendation for the Brownells Bake-on Laquer. I degreased, bead-blasted, and cleaned thouroughly with laquer thinner. Apllied several coats exactly as directed and baked as directed. Looks great but absolutely laughable wear properties. Krylon is tougher IMHO

Dempsey,

Out of curiosity, what other coatings have you used that were inferior to the Lauer coating?

I have been pondering this issue, and find that there is precious little comparative info available. I want to give my colt light rifle a new coating and I have narrowed my choices to either the Robar Roguard or the Lauer Dura-coat. I can't decide which way to go though. Mainly, I want it to be as durable and corrosion proof as possible (and black).

Anyway, would like to hear more about your specific excperiences.

Thanks,

Bob

Another vote for an old world rust blue, doesn't take much but a lot of study and practice to do it....It is the toughest of all finishes as one can tell by inspecting some of the old English rifles that have been around for a century or two.

Ray, JBelk and others... what is the chemical composition of old rust blue?

Save yourself alot of grief and find someone who can perform a good Hot Caustic blue process. The cost $75-125 is well worth the results. Stay away from the baking laqueurs and other stuff unless you know what your doing and are prepared for disappointment.
I've played around with all types of blueing quite a bit and while I admit slow rust blueing with Nitric acid/iron mixtures look great, they are a total pain to deal with IMHO. With hot caustic blueing, the secret lies in a THOROUGH degreasing as well as using de-ioinized water during the process. Last weekend I blued my 505 gibbs with a 4140 CM barrel and EN-7 Vektor action and it came out beautifully. I take exhausive pains to assure that not a trace of oil or grease gets anywhere near my blueing tanks. This is where I've ended up after a long long search!-Rob

Had a customer several years ago bring me his Browning "A bolt" rifle that he had just picked up from a very prominent bullet maker in my area, who had his rifle teflon coated through this company. Said it wouldn't chamber his ammo. Outside of all the crap that was never cleaned out of the bore and chamber, I wasn't impressed but was curious as to how this Teflon they were using was being applied.

About this exact same time, a fellow came to me bragging of a teflon finish he was putting on guns and asked would I like to try the product, I talked with him for a minute about how he was applying this finish on the weapons and when he told me that he was subjecting the barreled actions to 685 degrees for about an hour, I about shit!

I asked this clown did he have any background in metalurgy and of course he said he didn't. He had a batch of weapons he had just picked up from this prominent bullet maker to be treated. I told him that I wouldn't do that were I him, and went on to explain what he was doing to these fine rifles. This didn't sway him in the least, or, not on the surface. He brought one of the 700's in from his trunk and I Rockwell Tested parts of the action and sent the clown on his way. I told him that he should bring that same weapon back when he was finished treating it and I would again Rockwell the weapon.

He brought it back a couple of days later and the action was about as hard as an 80 year old... well, you get the drift. I asked him how many rifles he had done. He couldn't tell me. Said he has done quite a few for a shop in Wyoming as well but I couldn't pin him down.

I contacted the president of the bullet maker and told them of my concerns, and they said I was nuts, that I didn't know what I was talking about...

Oh yes, I almost forgot, the original Browning "A bolt" was sent back to Browning for a metalurgical exam after I contacted them with this story, and turned out that this customers "A Bolt" was indeed useless. I told my customer that it was a good thing that he couldn't chamber any ammo in that particular rifle. I am a believer that God watches over Cops, Children and fools...

Malm

Anybody know anything about black or grey-black parkerizing?

Chicago Bridge and Iron, a local bridge and ornamental iron company, used to treat their "in water" bridge components by allowing the pieces to thoroughly rust, then they would card the items, allow them to rust again followed by more carding. This process was repeated, building one coat upon the next until it reached a point where it was considered to be one of the most durable "in water" finishes of the day. They refered to this process as "fighting rust with rust..." Sounds an awful lot like the slow rust bluing method too me.

Regards,

Malm

smallfry---

There's no one chemical composition.....it's a *process* not a chemical. see below.

Malm--- That's EXACTLY what rust blue is. It was done to sword blades and armor in the 11th century, and has been a part of metalworking for longer than that.
Just for grins one time in Fla, I *blued* an old axe head by peeing on it once a week after boiling and wire brushing. It was mottled and not very pretty but I figured with a better grade of beer..........

JBelk... is it the same as rust brown?... my question is... where does the "blue" come into play? maybe you can briefly explain this process?
Thanks
take care
smallfry

Good thing, I have two projects in progress. One's .308 for a loaner, and the other is another .25-06 for me.

I'm leaning towards GunKote for the loaner and rust blue of the .25-06.

But there's plenty of time to talk me into something else.

Not hot blue, though. Been there, done that, ain't going back.

smallfry---

The "blue" or "black" comes from a chemical change in the steel.

Rust "blue" is the same as "browning" but with extra steps. The brown becomes blue by action of boiling water. I think chemically its changing ferrous oxide (red rust) into ferric oxide, which is blue.

The process is to introduce a chemical to degreased steel that makes it rust. That's usually an acid solution or a solution of metallic salts. (Angiers list more than 200 formulas in his book, "Bluing and Browning of Firearms")

After the part has rusted it's boiled in clean water and the dark dusty residue is carded off with a soft wire brush or degreased steel wool.

More solution is applied and the process repeated. After each coat the part will be darker and you'll notice a reduction in the amount of rust formed in the rusting stage.

On completion the parts are heated and cleaned and dried and a sealer is applied while still warm. This sealer acts like asphalt on a gravel road and seals the blue agains further moisture or oxygen.

Good rust blue jobs last centuries and are roughly 100 times tougher than any hot dip blue.

Just this morning I had to remove some rust blue applied by Mauser-Orbendorf in 1934....naval jelly discolored it, but I had to stone it off.

I am sorry if I am a smallfry pest but... Is this book "Bluing and Browning of Firearms" a good book to get if one was interested in doing this process? I do not see it listed in Brownells.
Thanks
smallfry

JBelk,

That would explain the mottled appearance of my tennis shoes...

Malm

smallfry---

I've owned the book for thirty years and use it all the time......BUT, If I were just starting out rust bluing I'd ask Brownell's which bluing they handle that has the most complete instructions and buy that one. It's probably "Belgian Blue", which is an "express" blue. It's more agressive and rust much faster which means you can do the whole job in one evening instead of a week.

Here's the basics---

The metal HAS to be POLISHED-- NOT buffed. 320 wet or dry is perfect.

The metal HAS to be totally grease free. That includes fingerprints.

The bore HAS to be protected. Most bluers use a coat of fast drying stock finish in the bore, inner rails and other places you dont want blued. Don't forget to remove it totally with paint remover after bluing.

The water MUST be pure and soft. Distilled or de-ionized works fine.

You must have patience......said softly and with feeling. A LOT of patience.

Don't start with a gun. Start with a piece of scrap barrel.

Don't consider the job finished until you've examined the job in direct sunlight. That shows ALL the mistakes or places that need more coats.

Different alloy blues totally different....you'll have to learn how each one reacts and how it looks when it's time for boiling and carding.

If at first you don't succeed.....change bluing chemicals and try again. Some people can make one work that others can't.

It's strange but true.

Leftover,

If you try one of these home processes, be sure all metal parts are thoroughly degreased -- and I mean thorough.

I would start with acetone, immersing small parts like bolt shroud, extractor, etc, brushing to get grit off, re-soaking, and finally boiling for at least ten minutes. I have found I can get the Brownell's Teflon epoxy to adhere well if I do this. Don't get me wrong, it will stick regardless, it's just a question of whether or not you can rub it off with light fingernail pressure afterward.

Todd

JBelk,

Do you forsee a problem with using galvanised tanks for cleaning and the boiling water?

This is looking more and more doable. I went rooting around in my shop and found my copy of Angier (Stackpole Press, Smallfry), and a fine wire wheel, and even a sealed bottle of "Classic American Rust Blue". Gotta be 20 years old. I got an arbor that will take the wheel, and a half horse electric motor. Might even have the right pulley to step down the motor. (My shop takes a lot of rooting.) I got a couple of heat sources and maybe 5 pounds of the Brownell's degreaser I used when I was hot dip bluing. I also got water out a 400 foot well in granite.

Now I just need a little energy. (Rooting through my shop takes it out of me.) Oh, and I gotta find my reading glasses. Angier is some tiny print.

Hey there dj,

Which ever way you decide to go, when handling any chemicals or solvents be it acetone or whatever, get yourself a box of nitrile gloves and wear them faithfully. Once that stuff gets on your hands, it will enter through the pores in your skin and go directly to your blood stream and sometime when you least expect it, it will reek hell with your internal organs. Trust me, you don't want what that crap will give you...


Malm

Excellent advice re: the gloves Malmborg; everyone should follow it. Your bone marrow and liver are worth too much.

Good advice, Malm. I'll take it.

And I expect I will use denatured alcohol as the primary solvent.

A little alcohol enters my bloodstream from time to time, anyway.

Black Bart

I had Gun Kote applied by Pac Nor, and a finish called Z-plate appllied by a smith in Washington State. The Gun Kote was terrible, the z-plate was so-so, it wore of the sharp edges quickly. I had a barrel pulled off the duracoat rifle and you can hardly see a mark, the Gun Kote was falling off when I pulled it out of the shipping container, it was packed somewhat poorly though. dempsey

leftoverdj---

Don't use galvanized or stainless. There are some complicated chemical and electrical reactions that take place in the presence of acids and heat.

The cheapest boil-out tank is a section of mild steel pipe split lenghtways and end caps welded on.

Todd,

We can include Bladder, Prostate and Kidney's as well...

DJ,

I too like to flow a little refined alcohol through my system from time to time, except now when it's time to get rid of it, it leaves my body through a different tube... Makes you wonder how my tennis shoes got that mottled look

I should have thought a little ahead years ago while immersing my hands in everything from Acetone, Gasoline, Kerosene, to WD40. Nitrile gloves are cheap and are not readily attacked by these chemicals... Do yourselves a favor and use them.

Malm

I'll wear the gloves although I don't expect it to make much difference.

I, too, have been given notice of my fate.