I am always on the lookout for good pre-64's but after finding a 95% 1952 in 06' at a give away price, I started to feel guilty about parting it out. What it boiled down to is that I sold the stock for what I had paid for the complete rifle. Does anyone else ever get to feeling bad about doing this, I only felt bad until I had his CASH in my hands!!!
Posts: 1605 | Location: Wa. State | Registered: 19 November 2001
I have a few pre 64 M 70's that are orginal and they are staying that way as long as I have them. Once I got them however I was satisfied. I did not intend to "collect" or get them all. The others that I have were already modified with recoil pads so I am safe there. One wants a pad on most of the rifles from that era and all but the big bores came with hard butt plates.
There is nothing that I can do about it. It's your property.
For myself a pre 64 M 70 with a pad is all set. Nothing else needs to be done.
I have thought long and hard about that very subject, and have even posted once or twice on it.
Many people, for as many reasons as there are people that own guns, have certain attachments to certain guns. And I think that the answer to your question comes from whether or not those attachments have formed or not.
For example, one may inheret a certain gun from a parent or an uncle or aunt, or maybe a granparent, and of course there becomes an emotional attachment to that particular gun, and then one probably shouldn't sell it or take it apart.
And then there are those fun hunts where a certain gun was used, or those fun shoots where a certain gun was used, and later on looking at the gun brings back memories of that hunt or shoot, and those guns probably shouldn't be taken apart either.
And there are also custom projects where the person planned the whole thing and went to all of the trouble to get parts and all of that stuff.
And then there is your situtation where you just purchased a gun from somebody and you got a good deal on it, and you just wanted part of it for maybe a custom gun. And I see nothing wrong with making a few bucks on the parts to get the action. Its not like that gun was a rare piece of history or anything like that. Its the engine of commerce at work. Glad to hear you got a good deal. What is the project that you are going to do with that action?????
If I wanted to do something else with it, i'd do it, plenty of people already have modified pre 64 Model 70's to suit themselves. If you are going to make a hunting rifle and keep it, who cares if it's original or not?
Posts: 2788 | Location: gallatin, mo usa | Registered: 10 March 2001
Plenty of people do not. I prefer mine origional. If you are going to alter them why buy origionals in the first place ? Altering them deminishes their value. Their are so many good-excellent pre-'64's on the market that have already been altered it is simply beyond me why any one would pay nearly 2k for a 98% gun. On the other hand the more that get altered the more mine are worth.
I have a 1949 model 70 30 06 all origanal and barely used that I got a deal on . I cant make myself cut the steel butt plate off and put a pad on it. Ill probably put another stock on it.
I was looking for a pre 64 featherwieght with the stock allready cut and ended up with a deal on a customized model 30 remington 3006 , and also a deal On a rare Remington model 720 I could not pass up.
Well hey we all gotta make scrifices I recently sold several of my pre 1898 Winchesters to pay for a pole barn. What can you do. I made good money on them and I enjoyed them for many years. Why not just sell the '49 to pay for the others ??
Guns, as with everyting else, are only worth (in monetary terms ) what somebody will pay you for them. Any time a transaction takes place, there is both an agreement and a disagreement. I have a feeling that if one were to analyze the growth in value of a common pre-64 versus say the dow or the S & P or a good mutual fund, the pre-64 would come out a loser, although maybe not on some of the rarer guns.
As I have said before, I sure wish I had some of the guns that I had in my formative years, but not for the money as much as for the sentimental value.
Admit it Chuckwagon. Each time you get a new one you fall in love all over again!!!
I have owned, used and enjoyed 32 of these rifles since I bought my first one in 1968. I will not alter a rifle in better than 90% original condition or one in a rare caliber, but, the unfired .338 Alaskan I bought in '68 has had the stock re-finished, is glassed and has had the checkering re-cut. This is "MY" rifle of the 33 rifles presently in my safe and I needed to repair a crack in the stock so re-did it to a more useful level.
I have moved on to making custom rifles from salvaged Brno-ZG-47 and 21-22 series actions as well as HVAs withh steel bottom metal as they are lighter than 70s, but, my current 70s will stay with me until I cannot walk, after all, every mountain boy NEEDS 4 Pre-64-.338s as you never know when a Grizz might pop out of the bush!
I think it goes without saying that a person would buy a rifle that has already been altered to make into a custom rifle. There are so many out there that have had a recoil pad installed or somebody down the line has tried to rechecker the stock. There is no need to alter a minty gun. On the other hand, removing an unaltered stock and offering it for sale is just making a different rifle " minty".
Posts: 1633 | Location: Washington State | Registered: 29 December 2002
Well that's true to some extent but I think their are those who would buy the best available then alter it with out thinking much about it. The 95+% guns are so rare and pricy now it would make little sense to customize one. But then their are always exceptions to the rule.
I agree with all the above comments about leaving the 90% plus condition rifles for the collector at heart. That seems to be why I'm having difficulty locating a suitable (short) magnum action, Pre-64. OH well, I'll keep looking
dennis, that makes two of us. I can find a fair amount of 06' and 270's but nothing for a Mag. I did find a mint Alaskan but pricey and to nice to break up. I will let you know if I find us anything.
Posts: 1605 | Location: Wa. State | Registered: 19 November 2001
Jimmy, Yeah this situation has me thinking........ ( a dangerous thing, at best )
From the information that shook out of the magazine box thread it's my understanding the 59-64 short mag (.264, .300, .338 WinMags) actions do not have proper mag box geometry anyways and only hold three down. So a new mag box is in order for a custom project. Since Blackburn is the only one widely available, a Blackburn 4 round, .338 WinMag box it is. (for my project) So with that, the added expense of opening the bolt face and tweaking the feed rails on an Ought Six action is small money. The feed rails on a Magnum action would need to be tweaked anyways for the Blackburn box. Yes? I may just search for another 30-06 action and call it good. Total cost may just balance out with the difference in price between 30-06 actions and magnum actions.
Willing to take comments and suggestions about the above.
Also, will the Blackburn Mag box be compatable ( with gunsmith fitting, of course) with the Williams one piece, Pre-64 bottom metal? From the picture on the web site I really like the look of it.
Quote: What are you guy's looking for 338's ?? I have seen several 375's recently. One was 100% at $1,850 The others were not much less.
Chuck Wagon, Don't know about Jimmy but I'm looking for a .264, .300, or .338 WinMag. Final outcome for me will be a .338 Mag to go with a .270 WCF. This pair will be my primary BigGame hunting rifles when complete.
dennis, as a last resort, I will do the 06' option. It can be done, I have had one done that worked but not as well as I would want. I think it would work much better with the Blackburn bottom metal. I'm still trying to hold out for a burnt out 264 mag and then go from there.
Posts: 1605 | Location: Wa. State | Registered: 19 November 2001
I remeber seeing a 264 listed in the last week at a reasonable price. If I can relocate it I will post it for you. I have not seen a single 300 or 338 in the last week of serious looking.
I would suggest using a factory H&H modified action to build your .338 as a factory one will hold 4 down, one up with short mags. These are easier to find than burnt-out .264s which are very rare, it seems. Also, the .338 can have the heavier bullets seated out further in this configuration to obtain higher velocities with more powder.
I had a pair of .338s built with McMillan stocks, Hart barrels and all that on '06 actions and they did not feed quite the way I liked, so, I sold them. I am aware that there are gunsmiths that can make it happen, but, I prefer to use magnum actions to start with. You might try a H&H action with short mags to see if it will suit your purpose.
This is an oft debated topic on a lot of different rifles. It doesn't bother me in the least to do whatever I want to do to whatever rifle.
As was mentioned above the parts can always be sold to someone who is putting a rifle together. Sure model 70s are highly prized by certain collectors and there is no end to what some of them won't do to make a rare model 70 out of a common one. I myself am giving my old 270 a facelift at the present time. I recently dropped off a pretty nice blank of black walnut with a smith to have him profile me a stock in the "Supergrade" style for which I have a pattern for. I will then have it checkered just as the original supergrade was. While there this smith showed me a batch of model 70s and 54s that were going to be rebarreled to rare calibers such as the 7.65X53 and the 9X57. These new barrels will be turned to resemble the original ones on these rifles. Evidentily the barreled actions will then be restocked to resemble the factory model 70s and 54s.
Also since the model 70 pre-64 action has been used so much for custom rifles over the years, there is probably as much history and collectability to them that way as in factory rifles.
I say do whatever floats your boat.
Posts: 845 | Location: Central Washington State | Registered: 12 February 2001
Roger, I prefer to buy them as complete gun of course, which ends up puting me in the action for around $400. My plans are to build a "custom" 264 win mag, with a 28" octagon barrel by Mark Stratton, Blackburn bottom metal, have someone do some scratchin on the action, rings, bottom metal and 3 gold bands on the tip of the barrel .Then find a nice chunk of wood to have fashioned into a Super Grade style stock. Its just a matter of time till one shows up at one of the shows as I am not in any big rush. It appears that I will be sending the 22/06 Mauser over to Morris Hallowell for Consignment so things may move along a bit faster if that happens.
Posts: 1605 | Location: Wa. State | Registered: 19 November 2001
Jimmy, Their are three on GA right now. The one I was refering to has a redfield scope for $950 ASKING price I thought that was pretty fair for a magnum based on what I have seeing. My project is centering around a 9.3x64 so I am really after a Mauser. I did see that the Muaser Waffen web site is partly up
Chuckwagon, thanks for the update, I have also seen those and there was one on Auction Arms a while ago that I missed. I'm sure by my posts you can tell that I'm a cheap bastard, I like to buy low and sell high dennis is looking real hard for the action right now so I'm trying to help him find a good one, I have no doubt I will come across one soon.
Posts: 1605 | Location: Wa. State | Registered: 19 November 2001
Dennis, look for a pre-64 in the 100,000 thru 300,000 serial number range in .30-06 or .270, order a magazine assembly (follower included) from Ted Blackburn, and you should be in business.
Are you still going to hire Roger Biesen to build your rifle?
Quote: Dennis, look for a pre-64 in the 100,000 thru 300,000 serial number range in .30-06 or .270, order a magazine assembly (follower included) from Ted Blackburn, and you should be in business.
Are you still going to hire Roger Biesen to build your rifle?
AD
Either Roger for a complete rifle(s) or Mark Penrod for the metal work and some one like Chic or Bill Sovrens for the stock & blue job. I also like the look of Serengetti's Merlin stock. Both courses of action have advantages and disadvantages.
Biesen: I get a complete, one shop rifle from a someone that knows hunting rifles. However, I did have the opportunity to examine an Al Beisen made rifle at the DSC show and the wrist felt very small to me. I discussed this with Terry offline and he also stated his Rodger Biesen rifles had a thin wrist although he likes it after getting used to it. It seems the trademark of Biesen rifles whether Al or Roger is flu de lis checkering and I'm more of point pattern person.
With Mark : I already have dealings with Mark with the repaires he performed on my current .270 and the .375 I owned for a while ( and never took to the field). Honestly I like the way he does business and feel comfortable with him working on my firearms. Another advantage is the two step process. I can have Mark perform the metal work and then as money permits I can send them to be stocked. I won't have to come up with 6 to 9 thousand dollars at one time as I would dealing with a one shop rifle.
The 30-06 I purchased in December is #188xxx and is of 1950 make. For a change, I'm actually ahead of the game in that respect. If magnum action prices are indeed hovering around $900 to $1k as stated above I would be money ahead to buy another 30-06 action and use one of them for conversion to .338 Mag.
I know you prefer the complete Blackburn mag box and bottom metal solution on your rifles. Do you know if the BB mag box will work with the Williams bottom metal? Or is this a question better answered by Mark or Roger?
I still can not bring myself to destroy a orgional pre-64.
I recently sold several of my pre 1898 Winchesters to pay for a pole barn. What can you do. I made good money on them and I enjoyed them for many years. Why not just sell the '49 to pay for the others ?? 
The others were not much less. 
