I thought some members here would find this interesting. This is a photo of broaching the bolt guide rib slot in an M-98 square bridge magnum action. Most of the cuts on a Mauser action are fairly common as far as machining goes. The broaching is something you don't see everyday. I enjoy doing the broaching, a good sharp tool with the right geometry and everything goes nice and smooth get it wrong and it just goes crunch crunch crunch.
Timan
www.satterleearms.com

That's not something you see every day. Thanks for sharing.

Interesting Stuart.....is that cutter similiar to a rifling head? Can it be adjusted up for each stroke by a threaded knob on the end of it,and a ramp under the cutter.

Also can't tell from the picture, but do you use a shaper to do this? Cool stuff!

Shane

In 1967 we broached the locking lugs in the receiver of the Ranger Arms actions made in Gainsville Tx. The broach was three sides of cutters with the lugs cut in one pass. It was made like other broaches that are with several steps like a multi progress file. The three lugs were cut with a power press in one pass.

As usual, what you are able to do in your shop is at the top of the field. I thank you for posting pics and encourage you to do it more often. I am sure many others here will also enjoy them.

When I worked in a fab and machine shop many moons ago I did broaching from time to time, but it was always in a vertical press. I see you are set up horizontally-what machines and set-ups do you use when broaching in your shop?

I bought a Logan 8" shaper a few months ago with the thought that, among other things, it would come in handy when I needed to cut an internal way of some shape or size.

Les

I had one a those until I found AR and sold it. They were slick actions. recesses bolt head with 3 lugs.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by LesBrooks:
In 1967 we broached the locking lugs in the receiver of the Ranger Arms actions made in Gainsville Tx. The broach was three sides of cutters with the lugs cut in one pass. It was made like other broaches that are with several steps like a multi progress file. The three lugs were cut with a power press in one pass.

Timan I like broaching myself. How many passes did it take to complete the slot?

Timan,
Thanks for sharing... As someone who just had my first vertical mill delivered today (my lathe was lonesome) I find these sort of posts most interesting... Lots to learn from you guys that have been around the block and know which alleys to stay out of....

Jeff Pfeifer

Shane,
Yes it is done with a shaper, good cheap torque these days mine cost a whole 75 bucks. It's an old stockbirdge 16" I put a 5 horse sinple phase on it. The cutter is fed by a ramp and screw nothing fancy or complicated I have a long feed screw and just turn it in to feed the cutter by hand, good control that way I can feel in my hand how well it's cutting.

Here's a couple extra shots of cutting the bridges with a manual rotary. Going full 4th axis soon on the VMC.
Timan

Opps. loaded the same one twice. I've always got to do this fast. This computer has been doing the time out thing lately.
Timan

Stuart,
Beautiful work as usual. The simplest way is usually the best way. It looks like your method works real well. Like Marc, I recently purchased a 7" shaper hoping to be able to do some of this type of machining on occasion. I was mainly thinking of using it on the mortise for single shot falling block actions. I'm sure for cutting lug raceways I'd be better off with something larger. Good news is the bigger ones are cheaper, that is if you can afford the shipping.
Thanks for the extra pics and good luck with the 4th axis, that will be like hiring an employee.

Shane Thompson

You guys might laugh but you can make that broach cut with an engine lathe. Grind your cutter with the proper relief on 3 sides and put it in a boring bar.
Rotate the work piece into proper alignment and lock up the spindle. Run the carriage just like a shaper ram using arm power. Back off the tool at the end of the ut and back the carriage out.
Dial the cutter back to make the next pass and turn the crank again. It is tiring but it is better than no shaper.

Next lesson
Can anyone cut the 3rd locking lug recess in a M98 Mauser?

BTW in an earlier life circa 1968 I ran a production broach for a few weeks. All the parts were internal gear teeth and internal splines for helicopter and jet engine parts.
The broaches ran from about 1" dia by 3 feet to about 3" dia x 3 feet. At a distance they looked a lot like a giant rat tail file.
The broach was a 20 ton Colonial horizontal.
Took a couple of minutes to load and broach a pair of parts.

quote:

You guys might laugh but you can make that broach cut with an engine lathe. Grind your cutter with the proper relief on 3 sides and put it in a boring bar.
Rotate the work piece into proper alignment and lock up the spindle. Run the carriage just like a shaper ram using arm power. Back off the tool at the end of the ut and back the carriage out.
Dial the cutter back to make the next pass and turn the crank again. It is tiring but it is better than no shaper.

I was visiting Fred Wells many years ago and was curious as to how he "broached" the lugways in his actions. He said he didn't but used a hook cutter in the lathe by the method mentioned above by ireload2.

Ireload2,
I wouldn't laugh, I've done some scraping/shaping like that on simple jobs. I've scraped the outside contour of an action, below the stock line where pitting usually occurs. This was before surface grinders made their way to my shop . I think Timan has the cadillac though, 5 horse motor instead of ARMstrong.

Shane Thompson

Stuart: Thanks for posting that...always enjoy "how to"

quote:

Originally posted by idgnmkr:
Ireload2,
I wouldn't laugh, I've done some scraping/shaping like that on simple jobs. I've scraped the outside contour of an action, below the stock line where pitting usually occurs. This was before surface grinders made their way to my shop . I think Timan has the cadillac though, 5 horse motor instead of ARMstrong.

Shane Thompson

In my other life as a maintainence machinist I cut a lot of key ways in the lathe, either too small or didn't want to take the time to set up the broach.

Rad

In addition to cutting the ways with a lathe the ways can also be cut with a mill. Either anchor the mandrel to the spindle with a simple 1/2 x 13 bolt and a 1/2 inch hole thru the end of the mandrel drilled at 90 degrees from the cutting tool use your power feed with the x axis
or make a more elaborate connection to the dovetail on the column for more rigidity. I broached 4 receivers a few years back anchored to the spindle, it worked and took a full weekend to cut the ways in all 4 of them.

There are many different setups.

Where there's a will there's a way. Broached lug way that is.
Timan

Timan

I wonder if you have ever sat down and counted exactly how many different operations or setups were required to completely finish one of your magnum actions, including the bottom metal. It would be interesting to know.

And I also wonder, do you work on these actions completely from inside out, or from outside in, or a combination of both. You said there are many ways to skin a cat. I would imagine that there is one place, one dimension, one slot, or one something or other that you get "right" first and then measure everything or do everything from that one first operation.

Beautiful work!!!!

Stuart-

First I need to say i am only speaking from second hand infromation here. I have always been told that broaching in a turret mill was bad for it. I would think that having the forces 90° to the spindle would be worse on it.

THe dovetail clamp idea you had sounded good to me. That would take all of the stress off the quill. I would still be worried about deflection of the apperatus though. Seems like it would be ahrd to keep the raceways in alignment with the center of the bolt body bore. The deeper the tool was into the the reciever, the more deflection there would be on the back side and it would kick up.

Doing things like this is why I got the shaper last year. It is one of those things you might only need twice a year. But like a surface grinder, when you need one there really isn't another tool that can do the job as well.

Just asking questions and trying to learn a little more. You have a hell of a lot more expereicne doing this kind of machining than I do!

Mark, I do have to agree with you that anchoring a broach to a quill is questionable and should not be practiced in the long term. Cuts taken must be closely monitored for depth.
I set up an indicator at the start point of the cut, so when the cuuter is retured to its start point one can very accurately advance the cutter .0005 then take the cut. Once you start pushing over .0005 to .0015 chip load you start bogging down the power feed motor. It's just generally hard on a knee mill to do this. I see it as a way for a guy who wants to do this just to get 1 or 2 actions done at the hobby level.
22, All dimensions come off the front of the receiver ring and the Centerline of the bore.
As for opperations, I have reams of production notes, setup information, for all the parts. I've not counted the opperations it would be too depressing
Timan