quote:

I have read Malm's machining skills, and he sounds like an excellent machinist. He faces the actions, cuts very tight threads, and even goes so far as to, on mauser, torque off both the shoulder and the inner flange. It takes a fantastic machinist to delever this on a rifle, and I think he probably does an excellent job.


jeffe

I first posted this in the headspace thread, but thoght it would be better to open a new one.

There is no doubt in my mind that Malm is a man who knows what he is doing. But I want to ask about this way to install a barrel in a M98.
The inner flange in a Mauser98 is very often not 90 degrees on center of bore. If he squares up the inner flange, I would be thankful to be explained how. Abouth thight fitting threads, I have learned that that is not desireable, since that can get the barrel slightly off center. The important thing is to square the front off, have the threads slightly sloppy(read not thight) so one is sure that the barrel squares on the front on the reciever.
Please understand I am NOT saying anything negative about Malm, just curious. The day I am no longer curious, I'll retire.

There is a great deal more area to torque against on the inner (primary) torque shoulder. Some folks even relieve the front shoulder so that there is zero contact there. I like to machine the tenon so that the barrel makes contact on both the primary and the secondary shoulders. When you pull the action down tight to the barrel, some crush occurs. It is pretty easy to get 0.002" of crush. That will take care of firm contact on both the primary and secondary shoulders, assuming that you cut the tenon to the correct length originally. A barrel that contacts only the secondary shoulder may be safe enough, but it is not likely to be very accurate.

Clemson

Clemson

What he wants to know is HOW you take care of the inner shoulder being "crooked".

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
Clemson

What he wants to know is HOW you take care of the inner shoulder being "crooked".

Easy.....

Don't use the inner shoulder. Almost all actions breech on the face anyway even the most accurate guns in the world. Its just another variable u don't need to deal with. Square the face and leave clearance at the inner ring...

Also....if you feel you need to square the inner ring you will need to put in in a spider and indicate it in and single point cut the ring square then you can go ahead and do the threads while you have it set up.

quote:

Originally posted by Nick Hughes:
Also....if you feel you need to square the inner ring you will need to put in in a spider and indicate it in and single point cut the ring square then you can go ahead and do the threads while you have it set up.

Have you ever done this?

Brent,

Ask your question again. I must have misunderstood it.

Also, if I understand what Nick is proposing, I have to state my disagreement with his procedure.

I have not run into any actions that are so far out of whack that I had to reface the primary torque shoulder. The point on crush that I would make is that you can "crush fit" the barrel to the torque shoulder on most Mauser actions to make a sufficiently accurate and immobile setup for virtually all hunting situations. Unless the shoulder is more than .002" out of perpendicular to the threads, you can make full contact with the barrel breech using nothing more than muscle.

Clemson

quote:

I have read Malm's machining skills, and he sounds like an excellent machinist. He faces the actions, cuts very tight threads, and even goes so far as to, on mauser, torque off both the shoulder and the inner flange. It takes a fantastic machinist to delever this on a rifle, and I think he probably does an excellent job.


jeffe

Shucks, it doesn't require THAT fantastic of a machinist.

quote:

:Originally posted by Bent Fossdal:
I want to ask about this way to install a barrel in a M98.
The inner flange in a Mauser98 is very often not 90 degrees on center of bore. If he squares up the inner flange, I would be thankful to be explained how. Abouth thight fitting threads, I have learned that that is not desireable, since that can get the barrel slightly off center. The important thing is to square the front off, have the threads slightly sloppy(read not thight) so one is sure that the barrel squares on the front on the reciever.
Please understand I am NOT saying anything negative about Malm, just curious. The day I am no longer curious, I'll retire.

Mausers present many challenges the others don't. On flanged Mausers, I will torque to both surfaces if then inner ring is square. If it is not and I have my choice, then I won't. I will at a minimum, square the face and screw to that. If the customer insists that his barrel torque on both surfaces, and I do have customers like that, then I will square the inner ring and torque to both.

I use a Milling Machine, a carbide cutter and boring head to face and square the inner ring. I have done a lot of these. The set up is considerable and for those who request it, I gladly charge for the inconvenience.

About the tightest I will go when threading for Mausers, is to lap fit the threads to the receiver. Since I am torquing to a square surface, a lapped fit is relatively easy to achieve and the fit is superb. On the whole, I have stopped trying to make Mausers into something they are not.

If the customers expects a target gun, then I will steer them towards a design that is more likely to succeed. But I am easy, and for the most part I will do whatever the customer want's provided it is safe, they can pay for it and it is within MY tolerance.

Thanks, Malm.
Pretty much what I thought, when it all boils down we agree more than some of theese threads indicate.
Like you said, the setup for squaring the inner ring is considerable, and I really do not undestand why you bother, but if the customers do not question the price, I guess it does not matter. I would never do this, because it is not necessary, and no customer is going to tell me how to install a barrel. But hey, maybe that is why I am not a millionaire.
I would really appretiate a pick of this setup, though.

Again, thanks,

quote:

Originally posted by Bent Fossdal:

quote:

Originally posted by Nick Hughes:
Also....if you feel you need to square the inner ring you will need to put in in a spider and indicate it in and single point cut the ring square then you can go ahead and do the threads while you have it set up.

Have you ever done this?

I single point true recievers threads and all and can bush bolt bodies as well. When I do all the steps including bushing the bolt the lugs make 100 percent contact with no lapping. Lug contact is still very misunderstood by alot of people. When there is clearance at the rear of the bolt you will never have 100% lug contact, in fact you will most likely have just the lower lug touching and upon firing the upper one slaps the lug seat rattling the bolt and setting up vibrations that aren't good for accuracy.

I square the face of the action and tighten the barrel agaonst it. I leave the tenon about half a skosh off of the inner flange. THere are several ways to skin this cat, but I am sticking with my current method for the foreseeable future.