Reaction to engraving never ceases to amaze me. It runs the gamut from:

I wouldn't have that done to my rifle (Shotgun or pistol) if I had all the money in the world. To:

I do enjoy engraving and would like to have some done on my rifle. To:

I wouldn't own a rifle without a full blown engraving job.

It's not something that people normally even think about, but as an engraver I am interested to know where the majority of hunters stand on this issue.

Thanks for any responces.
Roger Kehr

Scrollcutter

I think that deep down inside everyone who owns a gun would probably like to have engraving on it. Engraving is an art form and the human spirit relates to art and enjoys art, whether for its own sake, or for more objective reasons. For example, I can certainly enjoy an engraving of a black lab on a shotgun even though neither the shotgun or the the lab belong to me.

The problem with engraving is that it is not truly a "needed" item. Rather, it is a luxury item, and kids braces, the wife's new car, and a thousand other "necessary" expenses tend to make "excuses" for why someone would not want to have thier guns engraved.

I bet that those who say they would never have their guns engraved would not say that if someone who does quality work such as yourself offered to do their guns for free.

If it were up to me I would have all of my rifles lightly engraved. Just a little around the edges...so to speak. But there is always that little thing called money that gets in my way.

Roger,

Would you happen to have a pamplet of your work. With prices in that pamplet. God knows I love your work and would love to have you do a couple things. I just need to know through that pamplet if I can afford you

-Mike

Roger,
Sure engraving adds nothing to the functional aspect of a gun but I love the charachter it adds. I see nothing wrong with spending money for something I "like" as opposed to something I "need". As a side note the work of yours I've seen is fantastic.

Jeff

Mr. Kehr,

Interesting topic...

My personal feeling is that I would like to have "some" engraving on a hunting rifle. While I can appreciate the labor and talent that a "complete" engraving job entails it's just not what I would want on a rifle I was having built for MYSELF . For my taste some nice scroll and/or my initials and/or a game animal on the trigger gaurd/floor plate, or maybe the caliber engraved on the barrel in a tasteful font (rather than stamped), would be desirable. Personally, I'm not a fan of a lot of scroll work on the receiver, scope mounts, barrel, etc. Again, I admire the labor involved, and if someone wants it on their rifle I won't try to stop them, it's just not my thing.

Bob

I appreciate fine engraving for the fantastic art form that it is. I've studied the the work of top firearms engravers for over twenty years, especially that of Kornbrath, Ulrich, John Warren, Lynton McKenzie, Winston Churchill, Berry Lee Hands, and Terry Wallace. How fellows such as yourself pull off some of the jobs that you do is simply beyond me.

I've never invested in fine engraving myself, not that I wouldn't like to own some. It's likely that for my own consumption I'll hire fine, engraved lettering (caliber, gunmaker's name, my initials, etc.) for the high-end, walnut-stocked rifles I'll have made in the future and leave it at that. I have just a few such rifles planned for the future, and they'll be rather plain in nature and built for serious use - mostly for African hunting.

In reality, I'm a hunter (not a gun collector, although I used to be), and I mostly hunt with performance-oriented custom rifles wearing fiberglass stocks. The money that I'd put into fancy, engraved hunting rifles I'd rather put into hunting trips, quite frankly. Hunting experience is a lot harder to come by than fancy guns......

AD

I love well-executed, tasteful engraving in limited amounts. My tastes run toward fine english scroll. Full coverage engraving, besides being prohibitively expensive, often detracts from the gun's appearance IMO. Although I have had customers' rifles engraved, I have never had a personal gun engraved. I plan to correct that soon.

Personally, I would probably not use an engraved weapon too much - they become almost "too fine to use". But I can certainly enjoy seeing good engravings.

I don't know if this is what you guys are into, but the guns made in Ferlach in Austria are intimately associated with engravings. Just a few links:

Juch - Ferlach

Just - Ferlach This web-site uses frames so you have to follow some of the links like "Presentation" or "Catalog"

Karl Hauptmann - Ferlach Try the "Album" link

This is a central URL for all (?) of the Ferlach gunsmiths:

Ferlach

- mike

Roger and I are in the same business of sorts. What we do does not add or detract from the function of a rifle or shotgun if done properly. I can not think of a way to do engraving to have a detrimental effect on the function of a gun but stockmaking can if poorly done. What engraving or a fine custom wood stock does to a firearm is instill some character and individuality into what may have been a ho hum firearm. That will not kill the deer any quicker or more reliably. It is for personal enjoyment and appreciation.



I personally love engraving on a gun. The amount usually is dependent on the gun involved. I like a LOT of engraving on a shotgun receiver and less on a rifle. I have seen full coverage on a rifle before and it rarely comes off well. By full covearage I mean the barrel included. At times it can create something unique. John Hackley had a Winchester 63 that was sculpted to look like a snake with scales along the barrel. It sounds gastly and something I would never want done but it made for a very interesting piece. I like a barrel with some scroll work at the action and possibly some gold bands, more on the reciever and some nice work on the floor plate.



Roger's work is second to none and I for one am glad he joined this site. He makes us drool when we look at his work, but he also allows us to come to the realization that you can get some flavors besides chocolate and vanilla.

I really enjoy engraving on other people's guns. I don't think I'd ever do it to my guns, because I would inevitably drop the sucker on a sharp rock. That would take out the center of the image. That, and every time my mad-money fund starts becoming significant, some gun, scope, stock, or barrel sucks it right out.

When I get to be independently wealthy, well, then it would be a different story. FWIW, dutch.

My Uncle used to deal exclusively in custom Colt S/A's. Most were heavily engraved and works of art from variety of craftsmen, most of them long gone before most of us were even born. 99% of them were works of art, some should have been left original. I've seen a lot of them and my take on it was this. While engraving is expensive, if put on the right gun, your engraving investment will hold it's value if, A. it's done by a true craftsman B. tastefully done C. It's put on the right weapon.



I've got a 1909 Mauser project in the works now that I think is a good candidate for some of your work. If the guy building it will ever finish (it's been 9 long months of waiting). I certainly can't afford one of those game scenes (I wish I could) but caliber lettering, express sights marked, tasteful scroll out line on the floorplate, bolt handle and rings if I can swing it, would be very nice.



I can own a gun without engraving, but engraving gets 2 thumbs up from me. It's what distinguishes the ordinary from the........







Terry



P.S. keep posting those pics!!!!!

I love looking at pictures of your work.

In my mind engraving is one of those things that must be done to fit the gun. It can be overdone and it can be underdone. Would I like some done to my rifles? Absolutely. But again it fits into the want column following the need items.

I am in the final stages of getting a project underway using a 1903 Springfield action. The possibility of adding some engraving has crept into my mind more and more lately.

Please keep posting pictures ... my keyboard seems to be able to handle the drool.

I am partial to scroll work. I love some of the floorplates you've posted. Even the ones with the Monogram. I'm not big on "scenes" or inlay but can understand why some are. I can appreciate and admire that type of work but wouldn't want it on one of my guns.

I really like engraving on guns but only as an accent to the gun. I've never taken to the full coverage type engraving but small engraving outlining or emphasizing select parts of the firearm can really highlight a fine gun.

Roger
None of my rifles have engraving on them.Like Allen I would
rather spend it on a hunt.

I could afford to do it if I wanted to...just never turned
me on.Besides dall sheep are calling me.

Jeff

Thanks for all of the responses. I appreciate all of the input. I made a reply to this thread on the African forum. Take a look if you have a mind to.

I really enjoy this forum. Most people seem to be very honest and are to the point. I like that in a person.

Roger, I fall in the group that votes for a tasteful amount of engraving, judiciously placed. And I agree with Chic, shotguns, for whatever reason, seem to look better with more engraving than rifles can get away with.

Now, having said that less is more, I am still utterly amazed at the detail and designs that some of "you guys" are able to peck into metal. My feeble attempts at metalwork remind me of a story written in Cycle magazine years ago about the RG500 Suzuki roadracer, an awesome machine in its time. The author wrote something like "....the RG in my hands is like a Stradovarius. I can pluck a string, but I can't make the music..."

I would LOVE to have tasteful engraving on all my rifles, but I simply can't afford it. Perhaps a special 1909 Argentino will get lucky....

MKane160 aka BigDogMK

I say to each his own.Personally I can appreciate a good engraving on some items ,maybe including guns.
A rifle for me is a funtional tool.99.98% it is a tool.I will spend whatever it takes to make it a better tool.
Engraving does not add anything to the function,on the contrary,I would constantly be worried not to hurt the piece of art.Not one of my rifles makes it thru even 1 season without earning some scratches.
Even if I hang a rifle against the wall,I would cherish the rifle for its workmanship in regards to function.A rifle like a hammer or screwdriver,for me,is a tool.

I like nice tools,nifty tools,accurate tools.I like them to look "good" ,clean and functional.

BTW,I am the same with women


sheephunter

Roger, your work is art, plain and simple. I have owned a couple of engraved firearms and loved to enjoy the beauty but could never stand to take them afield. If I were to have you do some work for me, I think it would involve the grip cap, floor plate and some light action work with maybe a couple of gold barrel bands. So as it stands right now, the H2 Humvee comes first and then the engraving.

OK Jimmy.

See you in a couple of weeks. You probably have more money than Gene Autry.

I fall within the concensus. I like a engraving that is subtle and adds to the overall look of the rifle. While I can appreciate the skill involved, I don't like stuff that really stands out and takes my eye away from the gun as a whole. A good comparsion would be a flame job on a hot rod, bright orange and red flames on black doesn't do it for me, dark blue, subtle flames, on a black car looks great.

It's like woman and makeup. Some use that just right amount to highlight and show off their matural beauty and lines. The key for me is subtlety that draws you in to get a closer look at the specimen. Others go way overboard with the hey look at me approach. Some may find this appealing. Not me. The one thing I really don't care for is lots of gold inlay. A nice gold Wapiti of cape buff on a floorplate or a flushing covey in gold on a side plate can be tasteful on the right firearm. But when the entire piece is outlined and zig zagged in gold with a 24K book inlayed it leaves me as cold as caked on blue eye shadow. To each his own I suppose.

My dad used to say: "Engraving does not shoot".
But still he liked good engraving, within some limits. So do I.
I'd rather spend my money on a custom stock, a new rifle, etc. I see no point in engraving on mass-produced metal, like bolt actions, revolvers etc. These are "working guns".
But on a hand-made break-action rifle, yes!
Preferrably some some decent scrolls, never gold inlays etc.

Fuhrmann

Interesting topic. While I would love to have a modest amount of engraving on my guns, the "full coverage" or "game scene" type engraving to me takes a weapon out of the "usable" catagory an places it in the "artwork" catagory. You might hang a fine painting on your wall, but you certainly wouldn't use it for wallpaper!

Scrollcutter: you have a PM

Scrollcutter,

If I could afford an expensive gun, there is no way that I would buy one without engraving. Many old guns sold in India were almost ornate with engraving and inlays but people's tastes are much more sober nowadays, I guess.

That said, I don't think many people could turn away from your exquisite work - thanks for posting pictures here.

Good hunting!

I like tasteful engraving and own 2 such guns :

FN-Browning B25, 12 ga, engraved and gold inlaid, signed by P. ARNO

FN-Browning o/u in 9,3x74R, engraved and signed by J. BAERTEN (head master engraver at FN)

Thanks for the pixs. You got a nice set of shotguns with top flight engraving.

I am curious, do you hunt with them?

scrollcutter,
You do VERY nice work..... I assume the proper time to have engraving done is after final polishing and before blueing?? CSJ

CS

You are correct. Engraving is the last thing done, prior to finishing.

Of course I do, although I tend to regard them as fair weather guns. BTW, the Baerten engraved piece is an O/U scoped double rifle which I use for drive hunting. In foul weather and unless invited to a "classy" hunt where tweeds, tie and "status" gun are mandatory, I prefer to expose plainer substitutes, i.e. a plain A1 standard grade twin of the B25 shotgun and a 9,3x62 "scout" K98 for drive hunting.

My answer to your question has evolved with my age and experience. I always loved engraving but used to rationalize why not to do it instead of admitting I just wouldn't spend the money. Then I got a wife and children and really learned what "expensive" means. Now that the kids are gone its catch-up time!

Love it! Prefer a fine English scroll pattern. However, NO Teutonic stock carving!! NO ruby red wild boar's eyes!!