Just got in a french s/s 16 ga and need to remove butt stock to do repair.I have tried all the tricks I know w/o success. Kroil down the top lever for the past 4 days.This thing will not budge! What do you think of heat?Cold? I have used the palm of my hand to attempt to loosen it but no go. Please give me some of your collective wisdom and tricks. Thanks in advance. John323

Freeze it. You have dried grease and varnish that is holding things together. Soaking it in lacquer thinner will work too but will remove everything from the stock. I mean finish, color, etc.

Assuming you have all the fasteners removed. Make up a slide hammer using a steel plate with a section of steel rod about 18-24" long welded or threaded to center of plate. Remove butt pad/plate and secure plate to end of stock (drill deep holes and use 4 or more screws at least 2" long). You can fabricate a steel slider hammer or just weld/thread a heavy hammering boss on the end of the shaft. Apply hammer/slider as needed.

What type of action is it..
Does it have a separate bottom trigger plate?
I'll just assume it does for the following...

If so are the rear, forward and top tangsscrews all removed.,, Trigger guard removed?
If there's top tang screw (under the top lever) screws into the trigger plate, you can use that hole to drop a slender punch down into and tap against the trigger plate to push it away from the frame itself.

Likewise, many times the rear tang screw coming up from the bottom and threading into the rear of the top tang can be use. Thread the rear tang screw back into the top tang but this time from the top,,just plugging the hole eccentially.
Then a punch once again from the bottom this time up and against that screw filling the threaded hole to tap against the tang and loosen.

Sometimes you get lucky and can get a piece of drill rod with a sharp flat face down from the top of the rear tang screw and catch the bottom tang from the inside and tap on it a little to loosen it as well.
A punch doesn't work well here as the generally tapered shape keeps it from engaging what little edge inside is available to you.

The back edge of the bottom tang will be in the open in the wood once the trigger guard is off. It's shade tree to pry up on that as you'll be using the wood as a fulcrum.
Worst case you do that,,go back afterwards and splice in a repair no matter how small and make it right again.

Sometimes the trigger plate can also be gotten at down in between the action flats. Not always and not on all SxS's. But it's worth a careful look.
A direct placement of a brass or even a wooden dowel punch onto the backside of the plate (they can be thin) will help once again. Sometimes it will be at a somewhat awkward angle but everylittle bit helps.

Keep in mind the plate in many cases is tongue and groove fitted at the front to the frame so it has to come off in a sort of rotating motion from the back end.
Try to push it straight down and off from the inside if it does have even a slight lip attachment at the front can damage it if you force it off.

***SxS stocks rarely come off straight to the rear & w/o at least some partial disassembly of the action unless they are a through-bolt type of set up.***

If the frame and trigger plate are two separate pieces,,the trigger plate will have to come off first.
The frame itself will be left in the wood.

Most times the sears will need to be removed before the frame can be removed from the stock.
You'll be able to see the sear springs at this point. Loosen the tension and/or remove them (on some designs the sear springs will be attached to the trigger plate and will be out of the way when youhave removed the plate).

Then punch the sear pin on
thru the frame and allow the sears to drop out of the frame.
Now (in most all cases) the frame can be taken out of the stock.
Even then it may need a bit of a guided trip to make it clear of the wood as the safety is still attached at the rear of the top tang and that may require the frame to be tipped up slightly, then brought forward, then up and out of the wood.

The above goes for most any box-lock sxs w/separate trigger plate. Parker, Fox, Ithaca, various Brit and Euro makers, ect.


As with any gun that's been together for a long time, take it slow and watch the process carefully. Wood and metal can be somewhat fused together and separating can sometimes mean splinters of the close fitting inletting wanting to separate from the stock and remain attached to the metal.

It can take some back and forth working of the componenets, a very sharp thin bladed knife and a few chisels to help separate them and lots of patience. Don't add any oil, you'll have the wood soaking up petrol that will cause other problems.

Never under estimate what others may have done before you.
You may run into old repairs where parts were glass bedded w/o proper release compound used (or none at all),, locktite on screws or even soft soldered in place fasterners.
Most anything is possible.
But just extra added old stock finish, oil, abit of rust from bad weather maint and the wood can seem fused to the metal.

quote:

Kroil down the top lever for the past 4 days.

Hmm? Unless I have lost my senses why exactly does the top lever have ANY relevance to being able to remove the buttstock on a s/b/s?

Post photos of the action/stock.

Enfieldspares-The action will not open.Lever will not move so I was going to find out the problem by taking the stock off. 2152hq-Thank you for your insight.I believe there is a separate trigger plate....two screws on bottom metal were removed and I could move the stock about 1/4 " to the rear then it stopped.There are two cross pins low in the frame but I haven't been able to figure out what they do yet.Like you said going slow.
Thanks,John

Assume you have pulled the buttplate and ensured it does not have a bolt (Ruger No 1, Savage 99)
holding the stock on from the back.

Depending on the shotgun, you will probably have to remove the bottom plate (triggers) and then remove the sears to get the stock off. Often there is wood in front of the sears that helps keep the trigger plate in place.

2152 gave you some excellent advice. Particularly, the go slow. I've worked on, if I remember correctly, 5 Belgium and German doubles. Two had the wrists cracked from people trying to pull off the stock after they had removed the screws but not the trigger plate.
After the trigger guard is removed, there is probably a screw that goes from the back of the trigger plate into the top tang. The end of the screw can be partially covered by the safety but the access is from the bottom behind the triggers. There could be one or two screws on the front part of the trigger plate/action plate. After removing these you may have to tap the plate (wood/plastic) to get it to come off. The fit can be very tight and rust can help hold it. The trigger plate/action plate should come off and then the stock can be removed if my recollection is right. I am surprised that all the screws came out and yet the action seems locked up. The screws in front of the trigger plate/action can be very difficult if rusted.
Another thought regarding the top lever. There is probably a leaf spring in the top part of the action that provides tension on the lever. It fits into a recess and if broken and somehow jammed might be the cause of the top lever not moving.
Just random thoughts that might help.

It is a long time since I have had the stock off my Fusil Robust 28E but if you can't move the top lever that IS a problem. There is a screw (more correctly a "pin") underneath that goes down to the trigger plate.

Here are some exploded diagrams that I hope will help:

http://www.manufrance.fr/media...CLATE_ROBUST_221.jpg

http://www.manufrance.fr/media...T_222_EXTRACTEUR.jpg

http://www.manufrance.fr/media...238-254_EJECTEUR.jpg

http://www.manufrance.fr/media...BUST_322-324-326.jpg

http://www.manufrance.fr/media...EX_ANCIEN_MODELE.jpg

http://www.manufrance.fr/media...X_NOUVEAU_MODELE.jpg

http://www.manufrance.fr/media...wyg/ECLATE_IDEAL.jpg

The rear tang pin will also need to come out and this is hidden beneath the trigger guard on SOME and on others with a small trigger guard such as my Fusil Robust, if not mistaken, is in plain view on the underside of the gun at the rear of the trigger guard. It looks like it is just any other screw for the tang but it isn't it is a pin (as in a screw goes into wood and a pin goes into another metal part).

Manufrance do still exist...in another form...and they have a web presence here:

http://www.manufrance.fr/unive...tous-modeles-mf.html

I haven't been on THIS American Forum for French guns for a long time but they are a friendly bunch I recall and may help you. Lastly be aware that MANY of those French s/b/s guns are chambered for the old 2 1/2" cartridge (marked as 65mm) and not for the now more common 2 3/4" cartridge.

http://www.gournetusa.com/forum/

Good Luck with you gun.

Is a picture worth a thousand words? This is from that French Gun Forum and is a cut-a-way actual picture. It shows the two pins very well. Especially that rear one!

The two cross pins in the frame are for the tumblers (hammers) etc. and shouldn't need to be removed if this is a conventional boxlock.

As a last resort, well almost, try heating a metal rod to red hot and then holding it to the top lever pin and that should heat up the pin to expand and "crack" any rust.

Worst case is that a gunsmith will use a turnscrew in a brace and bit so that he can apply downward pressure at the same time as turning. With the gun action held in lead jaws in a vice.

Thanks this is helpful.