I picked up an early 50's Super Grade 30.06. Metal is in good shape and bore is ok. Stock has a lot of wear and an old recoil pad, but is sound with no cracks. My initial intentions were to refinish the wood myself, clean rifle thoroughly, install Talley rings and bases, a Leupold 1.75-6, and a red Old English pad. Keep it all as original as possible. That has turned into having the stock refinished by a third party, which will cost $250 and having a pad installed which will cost another $50 or so. Then I saw Mark G's post with his new Montana 1999 rifle he put together and I'm thinking that looks really nice. So my thoughts have shifted to sending the barreled action to McMillan and have them pillar bed one of their stocks for me. Then I have a much more useable, consistent rifle. I lose the nice Super Grade wood and overall feel of a 50's vintage Winchester and go to a more plain-jane utilitarian rifle, however, one that would most likely be more accurate. As far as cost, I could probably sell the Super Grade stock and hardware, and really not be out all that much compared to the cost of a refinish. I know ultimately this is my decision on what I want out of this project, but just curious as to what some of you might do. I should say that I am absolutely certain that none of the metal needs to be redone/refinished and I do not want to rebarrel, etc. The decision is really just do I refinish the classic SG stock or go with a McMillan. Thanks.

I say keep the rifle together. Finish your plan to semi-restore the rifle (it is a good one), and build another rifle for hard hunting. Use the SG for easier hunts, and enjoy the classic rifle.

I have a bunch of pre-64's, partly because I would buy these beaters for a good price, intending to take them apart for the action. But when I get them home, and take them apart and clean them up, they are so nice I cannot rip them apart. I take them out and shoot practice matches (mostly with lead bullets), and enjoy them immensly.

Doug I know where you are coming from and agree. This particular rifle lead me down the restore path due to the condition of the stock and because it had a non-factory pad. With the price I picked it up for I thought this is a perfect hunting rifle, one that I can really use and not worry about. And then the mind goes to work and before you know it this simple project that was to be completed in a month now has you awake at night contemplating grander things. It's some sort of disease I think. Thanks for your opinion.

I'd keep your rifle together as an original Super Grade, then I'd sell it, or else keep it for your collection. The pre-64 Model 70 Super Grade Monte Carlo stock is OK, but the low-comb version simply doesn't work properly with a scope (it was designed for open sights) and you'd have to have a head shaped like that of a Grand Canyon burro in order to achieve a proper marriage with a scope......

The truth is, pre-64 Model 70s are not exactly the sacred cows they're so often portrayed as or thought of as, and I've owned over 100 of them since 1978. The barrels tend to foul very badly, the actions are not heat-treated as well as the post-64 Model 70s, the metalurgy isn't as good, nor is the gas system as safe or effective as the post-64. Receiver dimensions are not as good, either.

My favorite rifle formula is to put together a post-1990 Model 70 Super Grade or Classic action with a modern, match-grade custom barrel, custom scopemounts, custom magazine system, aftermarket spring-steel extractor, and pillar-bedded McMillan stock. Then you have a rifle that combines the best of all worlds -- the best of the old with the best of the new.

Leave the pre-64 Model 70s to the collectors. For Pete's sake, the last of that breed is over forty years old now, and the world hasn't exactly sunk into oblivion or quit turning since their demise...........

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Allen,

Appreciate your response. Your idea is a fair one, but too far of a departure from what I would like to do. As a pre 64 sacred cow worshiper, I plan on using and hunting with this one.

quote:

The decision is really just do I refinish the classic SG stock or go with a McMillan.

To be honest friend...there's a lot of old M-70s out there......when it gets to the point that they're extremely rare the price will be extremely high as well.
I'd refinish and keep it as-is.....but it's your gun.....and you seem to like the McMillan stock idea.

You can put it in a McMillan stock and keep the old stock too.....and I'd do that for sure...use it and enjoy it....any time you want just redress it in it's original stock and walla...it's original again.

Wincester logo red pads are available form Brownells. I am sure there are other sources. The "Winchester Restorations" guys can probably help.

I would restore the rifle. Again the restoration expert types can help. The average gunsmith can not restore the rifle with the appropriate finishes. It will look better but will not be restore to as new condition. It will in fact be devalued as a collector's item. A trained eye can spot such work easily. Such a refinish would be a huge mistake IMHO.

If I wanted it to look better but use it as a hunting rifle I would spiff up the stock with some paste was and touch up the metal with cold blue. At least you would not be doing irreprable harm. When I had the money and desire I would then send it to an expert in restoration using period finished and techniques.

I don't have the same opinion as Allen on old model 70's. These are my second favorite action, first being model 98 mausers.

That said a stock out of the box Model 70 has issue. First even a supergrade stock is ugly, Winchester made the ugliest stocks the could design I think. I hate the step on both sides of the reciever, done so they wouldn't need to properly inlet the left side. Just plain ugly in my opinion, and I will agree with the point leave original Winchester stocks to collectors, they are very open grained black Walnut, very soft on almost every one I ever saw. And the reason its hard to find an old Model 70 in excellent condition, the stocks certainly don't last and need to be babied to keep them in decent condition.

Second big issue with the old Winchester is the dog knot on the barrels and the third screw. Bad by design, why they ever did it I am not sure but every Model 70 I ever picked up with accuracy problems, that wasn't shot out, the problems directly relate to that third screw and barrel tension and torque.

Those failings clearly identified I still like old Model 70's. Drop the stock and rebarrel them without the third screw, have a custom stock built and you have one of the finest rifles ever commercially manufactured. OH yeah there is high end stuff above it but I still like the old model 70's

My favorite years are: 1949-1952. I don't like transitions or prewars, and the quality took a dive after 1952, sliding to the early 60's where it hit rock bottom. A 58 or 59 is OK but the years I highlighted are the best of the best.

Your choices are one of two, restore if its possible or strip and sell off parts you don't need and build it back up right. Choice is yours and the value will be there either way in the end. If you look custom rifles on old model 70 actions are worth more not less than originals, unless you have a rare caliber. Let the collectors chew my backside, I hate guys that play King Midas with guns and don't use them as they were designed to be used....if they want to hoard stuff start collecting stamps or barbie dolls.

The opinions that one forms early in life are almost indelible, when I got out of the military after Korea in 1953 the only rifle worth considering was the 70. I bought one in '06, put a ShaCul muzzle brake on it which was soon regretted, had it rebarreled to .257 and following Townsend Whelen's recommendation kept the long magazine. Since then I have always had two or three around, usually more or less customized. Although I have owned I guess thousands of rifles from cheap .22s up through best British nitro doubles, I always am most comfortable in the woods with a pre64 .... or a Krag. Allen is right that a contemporary 70 is a better rifle in many ways, but, sorry, I have no feeling for them.

I am also in the keep the wood group. i will probably get flamed here but a properly fitted finished and bedded wood stock will be just as good as a synthetic. I have both.
A 30,06 witch is my favorite cartridge is likley to be plenty accurate for anything short of a match. If you plan on varmenting or shooting in matches get a different rifle. Using the componants you have on hand I would be suprised if you could not find a load that will give you moa (asuming you handload.
I have 3 pre 64 featherweights. My .308 is a tack driver my .270 is not But I am working on it still. My 30,06 has not been shot yet ... tj3006

Pre-War, I have hunted with my pre-64's a lot, but wanted a beater rifle because I am hard on rifles while backpack hunting (riding in a motorcycle scabard, dripping sweat & Gatorade on them, dust, grit, wet fog, hail, laying it down where-ever in exhuastion, etc), and I was determined to build a rifle on a pre-64. I like the pre-64 because it is made entirely on machined steel billet (except the reciever; machined forging). I know that cast parts are just as good, it is just that I LIKE machined parts better. It is an asthetic thing.

So, I finally found a pre-64 that I could take apart. It was a 1960 .264, with no rifling for the first 5", and a buchered stock. It now has a Krieger 30-338 barrel, and Echols Legend fiberglass stock. Mark Penrod is now puting the final touches on it, and it should be done in another 4 weeks.

But I will still hunt with my "blue & wood" pre-64's around my house.

Sorry, I need to edit my last post. I got my wires crossed; The pre-64 had a machined from bar-stock reciever, and a forged bolt.

The post-64 has the forged reciever, and machined/cast bolt assembly.

That is how I have read it anyhow.

I stuck to my original plan with my BRNO which is remarkably similar to your version of having a 3rd party do the stock work. Same even down to the Talleys

Refinished BRNO

It's great to hunt with an old stager that can beat a lot of upstarts - boy it shoots

Patina takes years to gain - don't toss it away lightly. Also I fundamentaly disagree with Allen Day on wooden stocks - with an old 'un like this if it's stable who gives a damn if it gets dragged through the mud for a week. The bluing's resisted 45 scottish years which are as wet as Alaska and the previous owner thought oil was for chips.

I'd also keep the wood stock, but then I'm not real big on synthetics either. For my type of hunting they aren't needed, but each person must choose for himself depending on his situation.

I myself like the low comb version better than the monte carlo although I can use either. I guess the low comb style is just more pleasing to my eye and works well for me.

My only pre-64 at present is an older 270 that has served me well over the years and is in the process of getting a facelift. I had Dennis Olson reshape the tang to the pre-war style and also turn out a new stock for it from a nice black walnut blank I got at a good price. The stock was copied from a Super Grade pattern that I managed to find for a song and will have the wide sling swivel bases like the original ones did. An original buttplate and a Dressel grip cap will be added to the completed stock. When the stock is completelty finished I will have Dennis checker it in the Super Grade style and also refinish the metal like it originally was. The rifle will still wear the same B&L Balvar 8 scope that it always has since I have owned it.

This whole exercise was designed to give me a period piece type rifle, which I am a sucker for, yet something that I would also use in the field. I fully intend to carry it while hunting deer and antelope.