I have several factory pillar bedded rifles and notice that when the front action screw is tightened down it "pulls" the barrel down some to contact and when this screw is loosened the barrel springs back up a fraction of an inch like the pillars aren't exactly the same height. I just bought an aftermarket stock and notice the same effect, my gunsmith has suggested skim bedding to level this out and eliminate the slight rocking that seems to occur. Another friend tells me that the pillars are never level and this slight "preload" is done with pillar bedding jobs. Before I have this changed can I get the scoop on what is correct. It seems it would not sit perfectly square on the pillar if the pillars were not installed level or else it would tend to flex the action slightly. Am I wrong?



woods

woods

There could be one of three reasons your rifle is moving in that manner.

1) The rifle's action is bedded OK but you have forend tip pressure on the barrel.

2) If the barrel is free floating then action bedding is not correct.

3) If the barrel is free floating then the action bedding is OK but the stock has warped or moved and when you back off the action screw the stock moves to where it is now free to move and gives the impression the barrel is moving.

You can also have a combination of all three points.

In my opinion pillar bedding is 50% functional and 50% bullshit.

Functional:

On actions like the Rem 700 or Wby Mark V where the area of floor plate metal around the front screw is quite small the pillar effectively increases the area since they are glued to the stock and the floor plate should rest directly on the pillar. Thus it reduces the chances of the floorplate crushing the stock.

Non functional:

In my opinion the pillar should not go all the way through the stock yet generally that is advocated, that is, the action rests directly on the pillar.

Imagine that the heel of your shoe was steel and imagine that you had a piece of wood that was 2" X 2" and half inch thick. Now imagine you have a steel dowel exactly half inch long and half inch in diameter that goes through the centre of the wood.

If you were to put the heal of your boot on this piece of wood then eventually after a period of time your heel would be resting on the steel dowel. However when you first put heel pressure on the piece of wood then your heel would be resting evenly across the 2" x 2" of wood.

The same thing will happen with the rifle action.

So if that was my rifle and the pillars did in fact go all the way through the stock then I would:

1) Grind then down so they were below the stock.

2) Then bed the rifle.

Mike

IMHO, I think you are both full of BS. Please, let's not start another brouhaha, it is my opinion only and you know what they say about opinions. The idea behind the pillars is, as has been stated, to keep from compressing the stock. The pillars must be glued into the stock when glassing the stock/action. They should touch both the bottom metal and the action. When doing this together, the glass will dompensate for any dimensional diffference between the action and pillars. Why would one want to make the pillars shorter? All this does is allow the wood, or stock material, to compress when tightening the guard screws.

Jim-

If you leave the pillars *slightly* short (not just little stubs), and glue them into the stock with good epoxy, and then bed over that, how can it make much difference? Fit them to the bottom metal, and then run them up until just off the bottom of the action. If the hole in the stock is of a diameter to accomodate the pillar, and I put a skim of Marine-Tex in the top of the hole, in effect "completing" the pillar, why is that being "full of BS"? If Marine-Tex (or any of the other good bedding compounds) won't hold it, I think the rifle needs more help than pillars.

To address the initial question; There should be no stress put on the action when the screws are tightened and loosened. Th action should sit level and there should be no perceptible movement at the forend tip of the tang (I'm assuming a free floated barrel here).
I have fooled around with various pillar and bedding block schemes over the last 25+ years. In general, I have had better success when there is a layer of glass over the pillar or the block.
In about 1978 I built a 222 on a Shilen DGA action. I decided to try a pillar system on this one. I made stainless pillars 1 inch in diameter. The contact surfaces were lapped to achieve perfect contact with the receiver. These pillars were torqued onto the receiver and the rest of the receiver was taped off except for four small pads on the sides, front and rear, to locate the thing laterally. Also the rear of the recoil lug was intended to contact. The pillars were installed and the action bedded in one operation. Everything worked as planned and it looked good. Didn't shoot though and groups of around 3/8 were as good as it would do so I abandoned the idea and glued it in.
Now I usually install the pillars then rebed over them so there is a skim of bedding material over the pillar.
Frankly, in wood stocks, I prefer to cast Acraglas pillars into the stock. Exceptions are at the rear of those rifles which lack tang area in which case I might add a steel sleeve. Right now I have 6 BR and "F" class rifles. Two have auminum blocks, 1 has steel pillars and the other three are pillared with Acraglas. All are satisfactory.
The making of match rifles is a little bit different than hunting rifles since any flyers are an abhorrence which might cost a match. In a hunting rifle, a shot which strikes 1/2 moa out is really of little consequence in the grand scheme of things and the quarry will still be hit as intended. So, in hunting rifles, one can accept a lesser degree of precision in the building and in the performance than in the competition gun. For this reason, many custom rifle builders use techniques and have requirements that are different from those employed by the target oriented guys and this is as it should be. Regards, Bill.

I was referring to you using a "short" pillar.

This is interesting....I gave up pillar bedding because I couldn't see a difference in that and a good glass bedding job.

I've built varmint rifles, and hunting rifles and so far just one .375 H&H DG rifle and have not been convinced that pillars did a thing for me at all.

So if the function is to eliminate stock compression, is this still important when using a McMillan type stock.....Rimdock?

The purpose of the pillars is to elimated compression alright but also to establish a stable and unchanging bed for the action. In stocks with a truly solid action area the pillars are less needful of course. It maybe that some minor compressibility is a good thing providing things are done correctly.. It may provide some measure of tunability to the outfit. This assuming the material has some resilience. Regards, Bill.

Thank you all for responses, they answered my question perfectly and explain why you need this skim coat to level things out. All my barrels are free floated as are the tangs, have hit it with both wood and synthetic stocks.

Thanks again.......you can't beat this site for info thats quick and from the guys that know.

woods