Lyman used to make a peep sight for Mauser rifles that replaced the bolt release on the left side of the action. I think it was called a Lyman 37. It was adjustable for both windage and elevation. Someone on this forum mentioned that they thought there was a knock off similar available. Can anyone help me on this. I would like to buy 4-5 for my African battery.

lb404:

It's a Lyman 35 sight. I don't know of anyone that is making the sight. There have been rumors for years, but nothing yet. I think Wisner was making a Lyman 36, but I don't think it would work on a Mauser. You might try him.

jwisner@quik.com

The model 35 has been a bit of an anomaly. We consider it classic nowadays, but in it's prime it was considered second rate to the model 48 (click adjustable knobs). It (the 35) was less expensive and didn't require a gunsmith to drill and tap the receiver. It was not produced after WWII. Original examples in nice shape will cost several hundred $.



I know of no copies, but Jim Wisner is the man who would. I remember discussing it with him, but I forget his remarks. He made this model 36 for one of my Mannlicher-Schoenauer 9.3x62's.

lb404,
I believe Gary Reeder in Texas can find you some originals. They run $350 +. There were two models, the one like Roger showed and other that did not have the small wheel at the front for adjustment. These came out shortly after the 98 Mauser and the initial cost was $12. Now to put that in persepective, the 1890 Winchester pump .22 was $16. One of those in good condition is worth closer to $750 and the sky is the limit.

KurtC:

It's not considered second rate or less expensive, anymore. I paid $250 for the one I posted the picture of.

Thanks guys. Do you have Gary Reeders numbers? Kurt, how does the one you have work for you? I am having Sterling Davenport make up three rifles for me now. One each 500 Jeffery, 404 Jeffery and a 9.3x62 all on Standard Orberndorf Mauser actions. Blackburn bottom metal. They all are original and with their 1935 markings. The banner on the rear receiver bridge is perfect and I really hate to drill and tap them. Iron sights will be on all of them and my eyes are not what they were. I have a cataract in the right eye that will come out later this summer. I thought a peep sight like the Lyman 35 could solve a lot of problems for me. I want to take these guns to Africa next year. What is your take on this plan?

I use peep sights the way they were original intended, as an optical aid to see the barrel sights more clearly. The aperature controls the amount of light and takes the fuzziness out of the miniscule barrel sights found on original Mauser and Mannlicher-Schoenauers. Used in this manner, I can cut my groups in half. Looking thru the peep also helps find the barrel quickly in dim light.

I do, however, appreciate the peep & post military adaptation, and used them quite effectively on the M-14 and M-16. I just have a problem putting military style sights on a classic hunting rifle.

If you do not want to drill and tap just yet, try finding some of the Lyman or Rigby cocking piece sights. I have used the Lyman, but think the Rigby style is more rugged.

LB404,
Why don't you use a cocking piece sight, they are available from time to time in the Gunlist..That is what the old English rifles from H&H, Rigby and WR had on them....I have an original, new in the white if that is of interest to you..

I have one rifle with a Lyman 35 sight on it and it�s kind of an interesting sight but if I were looking to put a sight on a Mauser this would not be my choice. It�s too easily moved out of adjustment and to remove the bolt the one on my rifle has to have the lever loose so the sight can be moved. As others have already said I would go with a Lyman 48 and if you don�t want holes drilled think about a bolt peep.

If you need a sight with windage.

2mp

I am seeing green. What an extraordinary array of bolt peeps. Thanks for posting the pics.

The guy with all the sights in Ft. Worth is Gary Fellers
817 346 9633
Another important phone # everyone needs is(Jeff) Lee's Gun Parts in Irving TX.
972 790 0773
Put those on your Rolodex and they will come in handy many times.

You�re Welcome!
Bolt sleeve sights are interesting as well; wish they still made some of the good old stuff.
1. Howe-Whelen-1903 by Hoffman
2. Howe-Whelen-Mauser by Hoffman
3. Howe-Whelen unfinished
4. Niedner Tool room model

2mp, those really are nice. Here's some reproductions being made by Classic Arms and Prechtl, respectively:

Would you please post contact info. for Classic Arms, a website or whatever you might have? Thanks much!

The aperature arm is spring loaded. It pivots as the bolt handle passes by. It can also be locked to the side, should you decide not to use it.

is that action the sight makes a result of the bolt handle passing it, or does the shooter move the sight out of the way manually?



it's a neat looking job. cocking piece sights, etc, are really classy additions to a rifle. the one made now for ruger scope bases is a classy little item, also.



thanks again,

-tincan

The root of the bolt handle contacts the aperature as it passes by. The actual movement needed for the bolt to pass is minimal. You don't even notice it when cycling the bolt.

Ray, I would be interested in your bolt peep. Would you use it on a big boomer or would you put it to better use on something like the 9.3x62????

tincan,

Here is another example of a peep that can be used with the M-S, or other actions for that matter. The bolt actually rides over the peep (as it moves back), and the peep is spring loaded so that it pivots back up to position when the bolt moves forward (the large cam on the front of the peep keeps contact with the bolt to a minimum).

The peep can fold down flush with the stock wrist, and can be locked in the down position when you want to use the regular blade type rear sight. It's very quick and easy to switch back and forth, and doesn't require drilling the action. Unfortunately I don't know if anyone is still producing this type of sight.

Jim

Jim,

That is the original Mannlicher-Schoenauer factory peep that was used from 1903-1923. Another engineering marvel that would cost a fortune to duplicate today.

Kurt,

Yes, this particular sight is on an M-S, but it is a 7x57 with German proofs. Most of this type sight that I have seen were on M-S rifles, but I have seen a few over the years on Mausers.

Here is a somewhat poor photo of my M-S from the top, followed by a copy of an illustration from Ludwig Olson's book on Mausers. There are minor differences, but if these sights were not made by the same company then one was probably a copy of the other.

I would love to be able to get a current copy of these neat old sights, since they could be used on an original rifle without altering the metal if a new stock was being installed. They also would work well on a newly made rifle in the classic style, which is what I would be interested in. This definitely improves the clarity of the sight picture for us over 40 shooters, while being instantly storable if not needed.

Jim

Frank,

Stahl (steel) is a bit of a misnomer. We are really referring to any metal (copper) jacketed bullet, as opposed to a lead bullet.

fla3006,
I did some follow up on the two sights you posted pictures of. I wrote a note to the owner of the rifle with the Howe-Whelen sight and he thinks like me that it�s an original.

Regarding the Prechtl Rigby,

From an email this AM. we sell also the Diopter. The Price is in Germany is EURO 188.- Please ask Mr, Don Mitchell from Mitchell arms. he imports this diopters in USA, so the costs of shipping are lower for you. I thin for good fixing, you must have alse a Fireing pin nut ( long version) we also can mount the diopter on tis nut. the Price for the nut is in Germany 67,60 Euro. The komplet mounted set costs 278,50Euro.

Best regards

Gottfried Prechtl

KurtC,
You wrote �The load for the cartridge is 3.67 grams Gewehr Blaettchen Pulver�. This load marking is the PROOF LOAD and not something that should be duplicated.

Frank,
You may not be aware but most of these 88�s are chambered for the 8x57J which uses a .318� diameter bullet rather than the .323� diameter bullet of the common 8x57S.

Thank you. I was told it was an 8mm mauser and guessed it to be .323 but I had planned to chamber cast before use. I had the same problem with a barrel that was actually .321 and not .323 but .318 could be a more serious difference.
I called Lyman re: the peep and although they no longer provide them they did have it listed as a#36 for my Haenel and some of the schilling models. They provided a phone number (actually a couple) for antique sight dealers. One gentleman had retired and already ac\uctioned off his goods and the other fellow was going to be checking.
Mr. Prechtle seems to have the items and I will follow up there.
Thanks,
Frank

Can someone advise as to the suitability of using one of the cocking piece Lyman peep sights as a ghost ring sight on a big bore rifle. I have purchased three of them to add to my African battery. Two Lyman #1 and another Lyman without windage adjustment. I plan to use the non windage sight for the 500 Jeffery and the two with the windage features on the 9.3x62 and the 404 Jeffery. The guy that sold me the peep sights warned that they are .75" back of the cocking piece and can BITE your eyes if you are not careful. Any advice on this from those with experience with cocking piece peeps?????

I have owned several rifles with cocking piece sights and they never come close to my eye. You would have to have a very short LOP stock to get anywhere near them or crawl forward a lot. When I see pictures with warnings about these sights they are always in the cocked position and it is back by your eye. Now if your rifle fires with it�s cocked you might have a problem. Look at the sight in the FIRED position and see if you can live with one.

I don't think the cocking piece sights are much of a danger.

However, a tang sight on a light weight '86 better be respected. Short length of pull + the sight stays put + the rifle really bucks.

I've used them on several rifles. There is no danger to you unless you have a short stock and some machismo desire to maintain a perfect stock weld when cycling the action. However, these sights were invented back before Americans** started shortening stocks, when just about all of them had low combs and a 14" + LOP.

One important thing to remember about cocking piece sights is that once zeroed, you will not have a proper sight picture when the rifle is uncocked. When installing them, make sure the rifle is cocked for the boresighting.

It is also important to note that the Lyman sights fold backwards, and do pose a threat to your face should you retract the bolt with the sight rearwards. It could also severely damage the nose of your stock comb.

While these are wonderful sights for BGR use, I would have reservations about using them on a DGR. The Rigby style would be more suitable.


** Once upon a time, nearly all stocks had a long LOP. When telescopic sights came into common use, Europeans maintained the long LOP and put the front ring on the scope objective. American companies, on the other hand, decided it would be easier and cost effective to make all rings the same size and attach them to the scope tube. This moved the scope forward on the rifle and literally forced the stocks to be cut shorter.

looking at the photo of .400 Springfield in a Townsend Whelen article in an early 1920s American Rifleman, had a Lyman cocking piece sight. Just measured LOP of Whelen's own .35 Whelen 1903, originally made in .400 for him by Howe in 1922, LOP is 14" exactly, has a Howe Whelen bolt sleeve sight. Whelen was a big gent, over 6', probably with his military training he was a stock crawler. No doubt the .400 is a kicker - altho 2MP thinks it is a sweetheart, just a little more jump than a .243. Moral of these stories is simple, if you have a cocking piece sight, don't scrunch up behind it and you should be OK. Also use strong plastic lenses in your shooting glasses - and ALWAYS wear shooting glasses.

Mark,

What's not sweet about this

MP

Outstanding Group. Have you found the forming of the brass to be difficult as written about. Or maybe that was Headspacing?
So, I purchased Nick Stroebel's book on old gunsights and found the Lyman 1, 1a, 2 and 2a for the Mannlicher Haenel bolt peep that 2mp talked about earlier. It has been fun talking with so many different people about finding one. I will be visiting a fellow next week who also has for sale several of the front sights. These are inline and by depressing the front bead a night bead rises up. I will be having it engraved to match the rest of the rifle.
I have found the Haenel nut and sent for that but not the actual peep. Anyone have one?
Frank

Frank,

For a little detail information on the .400 Whelen.



>.400 Whelen<

I have spoken with Tom Delucci about his cocking piece sight and it can be used as a ghost ring for a dangerous game rifle with little concern about it coming back into your eye. I will place an order for three.

One serious question, will the cocking piece sight interfere with your ability to use a scope if you should choose to use one with the peep as a backup sight. Would you necessarily have to use high rings to also accommodate the cocking piece sight?????

lb404, That cocking piece site looks very slick but I don't think I'm going to be shooting your 500 Jeffrey with that thing on there. Besides how can you mount it as crooked as your scope reticles?... ....DJ

Would you have contact info for Tom Delucci, also any idea what the bolt peep is worth? I have a Parker Hale set up for one of these (rear of striker is dovetailed horizonatlly) but lacking the sight itself, and thought it would make a useful addition. Thanks. - Dan

from this month's "Accurate Rifle"-