Does some one recall what the R-93 recall was about a few years back? Specifically what was changed on the rifles?
Thanks for the help on that.

I was down in bed over the weekend and with the aid of my English-German dictionary, my pitiful knowledge of the language and the P.O.S. online translation sites, went crawling around many European hunting and shooting websites.

I was able to find eight well documented instances of bolts zipping out the back of the rifles and hitting shooters faces like a large truck going through the front wall of a small cottage. At the time the problem was restricted to the magnum calibers, and the 8x68S.

On the civil side of things, Blaser at the time said that only ammunition bearing the Blaser label was safe to shoot in one of their rifles; none of that Norma or RWS trash.

On the criminal side of things, the Norweigan, French, German and even Austrian police were far from amused.

A few of the articles reported varying failure rates. The consensus was that it was either 1:100,000, or 8:100,000. All weapons fail from time to time (ask anyone who has had a KB with their Glock).

The problem was the failure mode. The primary safety feature of the Blaser is the collet that grips the base of the case. Up to a point, the more pressure that it experiences, the tighter it holds the bolt extension in the barrel cut-out. One of the problems seem(ed) to be the secondary safety device which was supposed to restrain the bolt from launching backward like a V-2 if the bolt head failed. Seems it was made out of plastic. Oops. So, I was wondering if the original R-93 recall was to replace that with something more substantial. One of the sources indicated that it was replaced with aluminum??? If they are that hard up for money, I for one would buy them a chunk of 17-4 stainless steel.

Another issue was the barrel steel. Some of the failures had the ass end of the barrels (which the bolt head locks into directly) blow apart. Blaser, citing "commercial advantage" reasons would not release the specific alloy that the barrel was composed of. Thus, it was not possible to calculate yield strength, etc. etc.

Sooooo, Blaser blamed all the trouble on bad ammunition (except for the one that went with Blaser ammunition in the chamber). That attitude hardened perceptions of the company and the R-93 rifle, and began to have a negative impact on sales (the R-93 was banned from several ranges, but not banned by any whole country).

At this point I own a Blaser LRS II. The only problem with that model is that they sometimes go "bang" when your finger is nowhere near the trigger. Mine is back at the US imkporter, SIG Arms, having that fixed via a recall.

Before I consider trading off some other guns to pick up an R-93, I want to find out if the previous problems have been corrected.

I know a lot of people loathe Blasers, and a lot of people love them. What I wish to learn are the specifics of the engineering changes that have been made, and how well those changes are working.

Thanks so much for your constructive input.

LD

LD,

A few years back when I owned a Blaser in 375H&H, there was a recall to switch out a pin in the trigger somewhere. Apparently, the metal quality was not as it should have been, and the pin was replaced with a new one. Around that same time, I recall that there was another recall due to something with the bolt house and safety. The "bolt housing" was made of plastic at the time, instead of metal, and when firing, the safety could "pop" off into the de-cocked position. I think this was mainly in heavier recoiling calibres. They were switched with aluminium ones.

The guy here in Norway who had a Blaser bolt go thru his face was shooting 8x68S, loaded with 78 grains Norma MRP powder and using a 196 grains Norma Oryx bullet:


A link regarding some of the Blaser incidents: http://www.deportiro.com.ar/english_articles/al10_english_version.shtml

I for one am sure that any rifle can blow up for various reasons. But the important question is perhaps how they affect the shooter when they blow up?

Are there known cases of Mauser, Wincheser, Remington, Weatherby, Browning or other rifle bolts flying backwards thru the shooters head when things go wrong due to high pressure or other mishaps?

LD,

The Recall Blaser initiated several years ago with the R93 (according to Blaser, my Gunsmith and correspondingly the re-fit that was done on my R93 OffRoad) was that one of their Suppliers used a non-specified, out-of-specification steel pin in the trigger assembly, apparently a (unknown to me) type of steel pin instead of a Stainless Steel pin. Blaser re-called and re-fitted (in a matter of minutes - most of the re-calls being done as the Customers waited). My R93 trigger is now stamped with a circled letter "P" on the upper left-hand side of the trigger to show this pin was replaced by Blaser.

According to my German Gunsmith any Blaser R93 rifle without this circle "P" on the uper left-hand side of the trigger can be sent to an authorized dealer for immediate free pin replacement.

Reagrding the bolt issue, I don't think I want to go down this road......too far, anyway.

Having said all that, I appareciate a good objective exchange on the advantages and potential or perceived disadvantages of Blaser rifles and really can't say whether 8 or any other number/statistic is the correct number of Blaser rifle bolt issues that have been reported. I would add though that I see just as many, if not more reports of blown Sako's, Remington's, Winchester's, countless Mausers and have had direct expereince with ruptures, busrts & failures of all types of military firearms up to & including artillery pieces.

Having had a second career for a major global manufacturer as a Security Professional and been repsonsible for and involved in countless investigations into product abuse, fraud and recalls; I have first hand expereince & knowledge of the moral, legal, libaility and investigation issues surrounding such events. Not a pleasant time for anyone and the media hype, agendas of Lawyers & Claimants and Regulatory Authoritiy requirements combined with unsubstantiated consumer rumors make the issues just that much more complicated & difficult. Net, I personally nor professionally cannot imagine that major global firearms manufacturer would entertain manufacturing, producing, selling aand distributing a product that they aren't completely satisfied meets consumer safety requirements.

Gerry, you have more faith in engineers and corporate boards than just about anyone I know.

I agree with the first two assessments. Crap happens. Rifles blow up, for one reason or another. The issue is how they treat the shooter when they do.

Once you experience a case failure (or worse), your perspective on rifle design priorities changes. JMO, Dutch.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerry:
LD,

The Recall Blaser initiated several years ago with the R93 (according to Blaser, my Gunsmith and correspondingly the re-fit that was done on my R93 OffRoad) was that one of their Suppliers used a non-specified, out-of-specification steel pin in the trigger assembly, apparently a (unknown to me) type of steel pin instead of a Stainless Steel pin.

Gerry,

that was recall no. 2, about 2-3 years back.

Another recall was in 2000, recalling R93 rifles which had a plastic (instead of aluminum) bolt housing.
These rifles obviously were dangerous in case of case head separation.

Fuhrmann

quote:

Originally posted by Gerry:
I would add though that I see just as many, if not more reports of blown Sako's, Remington's, Winchester's, countless Mausers and have had direct expereince with ruptures, busrts & failures of all types of military firearms up to & including artillery pieces.

That is certainly true. Incorrectly handloaded ammunition can blow up ANY rifle. The R93 has proven to withstand quite a bit higher pressures than many other designs like a Mauser 98. The difference is in the failure mode once it does fail. In a Mauser 98 or similar designs, once chamber pressure exceeds a certain value, the barrel will rupture in the chamber area. The bolt usually stays in place. In a R93, the barrel will rupture much in the same way. However, once that happens, the locking system, by design, fails completely, and the bolt is blown out of the rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by JV:

quote:

Originally posted by Gerry:
I would add though that I see just as many, if not more reports of blown Sako's, Remington's, Winchester's, countless Mausers and have had direct expereince with ruptures, busrts & failures of all types of military firearms up to & including artillery pieces.

That is certainly true. Incorrectly handloaded ammunition can blow up ANY rifle. The R93 has proven to withstand quite a bit higher pressures than many other designs like a Mauser 98. The difference is in the failure mode once it does fail. In a Mauser 98 or similar designs, once chamber pressure exceeds a certain value, the barrel will rupture in the chamber area. The bolt usually stays in place. In a R93, the barrel will rupture much in the same way. However, once that happens, the locking system, by design, fails completely, and the bolt is blown out of the rifle.

What kind of dokumention has you seen of how mutch presure a R93 can withstand.
I hawe seen alot of marketing stufs claiming the strength of the design, and i have seen a lot of incomplete qotings from reports missing a lot of information.

Can you link any independent teste showing what a r93 can withstand compared to other actions(caliber, presure make of brass etc.)
Is ther also any available results of what actualy happens when it finaly give way, and what damages is expected to hapens to the shoter, compared to other riflebrands

quote:

Originally posted by JV:
the locking system, by design, fails completely, and the bolt is blown out of the rifle.

"Designed to fail". Now that's a nifty catch phrase.

quote:

Originally posted by malm:

quote:

Originally posted by JV:
the locking system, by design, fails completely, and the bolt is blown out of the rifle.

"Designed to fail". Now that's a nifty catch phrase.

Ewil rumors tells that Bla**r to prove their eficiency have discussed to introduce the slogan " Bla**r One shot Two kills "

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:
What kind of dokumention has you seen of how mutch presure a R93 can withstand.
I hawe seen alot of marketing stufs claiming the strength of the design, and i have seen a lot of incomplete qotings from reports missing a lot of information.

Can you link any independent teste showing what a r93 can withstand compared to other actions(caliber, presure make of brass etc.)
Is ther also any available results of what actualy happens when it finaly give way, and what damages is expected to hapens to the shoter, compared to other riflebrands

I have read several reports about the safety of the R93, at least one from the independent insitute DEVA. I believe DEVA has tested the R93 up to 8000bar. If you send them an email, they might be able to send you the report.

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:

quote:

Originally posted by malm:

quote:

Originally posted by JV:
the locking system, by design, fails completely, and the bolt is blown out of the rifle.

"Designed to fail". Now that's a nifty catch phrase.

Ewil rumors tells that Bla**r to prove their eficiency have discussed to introduce the slogan " Bla**r One shot Two kills "

" Bla**r One shot Two kills "

That's going to become a classic line.

Thanks for the DEVA link. I will write to them this weekend.

Interestingly, I was able to track down a total of eight Sako failures.

Maybe that is the magic number that causes a manufacturer to take notice.

Gerry,
Your level of faith in certain segments of mankind is refreshing. Having seen the military ignore blatant problems that have gotten many young men and women killed, corporations tell their pilots that the main spar on their L-100 (civilian designation of the C-130) had been replaced per FAA directive (a $1,200,000.00 USD repair) only to have the wings fall off,health departments lie about the prevalence and severity of fatal diseases, and doctors react with indifference to the death, pain and suffering of patients they swore an oath to protect; well, I am not so sanguine. Never trust, always verify, etc.

I will also order a set of calipers next week. I would like to measure the barrel extension/ass end of barrel back in the bolt lock-up region. Some of my reading indicated there was/is a portion that is quite thin. Perhaps that area has been thickened.

As far as an action/rifle's ability to handle pressure; I don't think there is any proprietary magic available to any given manufacturer. All steels have known yield strengths for a given thickness and heat treatment condition. Stronger steels are often more expensive to buy and to machine. More metal in the breech is heavier, etc.

Everyone blames the shooter or the supplier. No control over the shooter, but corporations are supposed to have a quality assurance/control problem to deal with consistency and specifications of supplied parts.

It is tempting to cut a centimeter off the end of a Blaser barrel to have it analyzed for its alloy and condition.

Thanks again for all the help.

The Blaser concept is appealing for certain applications. I will make sure the safety level is now sufficient to proceed.

LD

PS I am more careful since blowing up a Glock model 21 several years ago. Fortunately that failure occurred in front of me, not in my skull.

quote:

Originally posted by JV:

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:
What kind of dokumention has you seen of how mutch presure a R93 can withstand.
I hawe seen alot of marketing stufs claiming the strength of the design, and i have seen a lot of incomplete qotings from reports missing a lot of information.

Can you link any independent teste showing what a r93 can withstand compared to other actions(caliber, presure make of brass etc.)
Is ther also any available results of what actualy happens when it finaly give way, and what damages is expected to hapens to the shoter, compared to other riflebrands

I have read several reports about the safety of the R93, at least one from the independent insitute DEVA. I believe DEVA has tested the R93 up to 8000bar. If you send them an email, they might be able to send you the report.

Have you actualy read the original report, or have you also ben lured into thinking that the presrelease from the manufacturer, was the report.
Did it say anything about whitch caliber the 8000bar was tested. (i can tell you ther is a hell of a diference in actual thrust, depending on if it is a kal 222, or a shortmag) The last delivers more than 3 times higher boltface thrust with the same presure in bar.
I have had at least 4 diferent people asking the caliberquestion to the factory. Everytime it was ignored.
(many modern PF action withstands more than 9000 bar in standardcalibers as 6,5x55 I guess that a remmington 700 han handle over 10.000bar)
Steyr SBS actualy says that ther actions ar all tested with 8000 bar

Acording to the "secret" barrelmaterial on a r93, i can inform that beneth the nitrocarburized surface, it has a measured hardnes of 26 Hrc That equals a Yildstrength around 85 kg/mm2, witch is in the mediumrange of barrelsteel.

Hi Jørgen,

Nitrocarburizing moderate strength steel must be the custom in Austria. I believe that Glock does the same things with their barrels.

8,000 bar = 116,030 PSI
9,000 bar = 130,534 PSI
10,000bar = 145,038 PSI

85 Kg/mm2 = 120,898 PSI

So, what's the mystery here? Every single Blaser failure to date (apart from the pre-aluminum bolt fitting issues, which have long been solved) has been traced to faulty ammunition.

Erik, your listing of the precise load used by the one-eyed shooter is quite interesting. How on earth do you or does anyone else know what load he used in that particular cartridge, since it literally went up in smoke as soon as he fired it? Christ alone knows that specific load, and he, as usual, isn't talking.

There is no mystery here, only a moral: DO NOT USE OVERPRESSURE HANDLOADS IN ANY RIFLE - REPEAT - ANY RIFLE!

The question is not would you rather lose a hand or an eye? The point is, why lose either through the use of faulty ammunition?

Anyone owning a Blaser and believing this bullshit about them seems to me to be morally bound to destroy it. But that doesn't seem to be happening, now, does it? BTW, I'll be happy to buy any that anyone doesn't want, at a substantial "unsafe" discount, however, just to compensate me for my lost peace of mind.

Hi MR,

I have destroyed a gun in the past because it wasn't safe.

This is not a love/bash Blaser thread please.

I already own one Blaser. I traded my Rolex submariner watch for it and the accessories. Before I invest in any more, I will look into the engineering from every angle.

Here is my analogy:

The F-16 came into service in 1980. There is no doubt that it has been a successful "utility infielder" type of fighter/attack/reconnisance aircraft in the last 26 years.

the F-16 has had its share of fatal crashes. Some were operator error, but certainly not all. The F-16 "A" model had Pratt & Whitney F-100 model engines. Not coincidently, F-16 A's sufferred many crashes due to engine failure. Two friends died because of that. Pratt & Whitney and the USAF both vehemently denied a problem with those engines, but the F-16 C model came out with General Electric engines a few years later. The crashes due to engine failure fell by about 80-90%.

Needless to say, I felt a lot better about flying the C model viz the A model. Is the F-16 a pretty good jet? Yes, now it is. Did it have teething problems? Again, yes it did.

Were all of the major incidents with the R-93 due to operator error? Statistically that is very unlikely. The rate of people reloading to unsafe pressures is likely stable over time. the catastophic events with R-93 rifles seems to have dropped precipitously since the recalls. If the catastrophies were/are all due to operator error, we would expect them to continue to occur much as fighter jets do continue to crash at a rate proportional to operator error in the cockpit.

Was I nervous about shooting my stainless Sako 75 in 300 Win Mag after the Sako cstasstrophic failures? Yes indeed. I investigated for 18 months until I had a decent handle on the issues.

Am I a touch nervous about shooting my LRS II? Not too much, although I am happy I didn't have an unintended discharge before the recent LRS II recall.

Do I like a straight pull bolt? Yes, I used one a lot shooting an Anshutz Biathlon Rifle (model 1827, witha Fortner bolt system).

Will I pick up a Blaser Professional Off Road in 8x68S if my present investigation indicates that the former difficulties have been resolved? Sure, and some more barrels, magazines and bolt heads to boot.

At present, my one remaining area of concern is the R-93 in calibers characterized by higher levels of bolt thrust.

I am not concerned about the R-93 in calibers with the 7x57 Mauser sized cartridges on down, just with the H&H sized bolt head on up.

Could you take some pictures of the cross pin with the encirlced "P" on the end? Also of the shroud that was changed from plastic to metal some time ago?

Some good comes out of bad. I see that Sako is no longer selling rifles with skinny little fluted 416R stainless steel barrels. That is good.

The Blaser safety record seems to have improved in the last two years. That is certainly cause for some comfort.

LD

I once took a Japanese Type 38 Arisaka out to the mountains to test an overload in it. The overload was 38 grains of Bullseye powder, an F215 primer, and a 160 grain Hornady round nose bullet. But just to be sure, I plugged the barrel also. Then I tied the gun to a tree and tied a string to the trigger. I put a video camera on a tripod and filmed the trigger pull and kaboom. Oddly, the report was just like a regular rifle shot. When I went over to the rifle I found the extractor and floor plate missing, and the stock was split in the magazine area. Also the bolt lugs were set back and the bolt would not open. There were no powder burns on the rifle at all. A person shooting that rifle at the time may have suffered a splinter in his hand, if that. Then a friend of mind tapped the bolt back into place and was able to open the action. With some honing, the action could have been re-used. The barrel was in fine condition. And the stock could have been fixed with glass bedding.

FYI, the Arisaka is a Mauser 98 variation.

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:

Erik, your listing of the precise load used by the one-eyed shooter is quite interesting. How on earth do you or does anyone else know what load he used in that particular cartridge, since it literally went up in smoke as soon as he fired it? Christ alone knows that specific load, and he, as usual, isn't talking.

MR,

What you say is of course correct. No one can know, since the gunpowder in that specific cartridge was burned up! Even though the rest of his batch was loaded with that amount.

However, I seem to recall that Norma MRP is so slow burning, that is isn't possible to stuff a dangerous amount of it into a 8x68S case with that bullet. And that was one of the reasons for the load being published in some of the Norwegian magazine articles. Perhaps someone here with these components can try to see how much MRP powder goes into such a case? But I might be wrong, and maybe it is possible to put a dangerous amount of MRP in a 8x68S case!

I guess in theory, it is also possible that he used another powder in that one particular cartridge, but I find that kind of hard to swallow.

As LD mentions, there is no reason to turn this into a love/hate type of thread. And I would think that LD would like to hear all sides of the story in order to make an educated decision?

I really, really like the Blaser R93. I like the balanse, the grip, the scopemount on the barrel, the presision, the trigger, the "cocking in stead of safety" - I even like its looks.

Out of the box, an outstanding gun.

There is just this thing about the flying bolt.

All guns will brake if abused, with high-preassure loads ans such. The big question is, what will it do to the shooter when it blows? In most rifles not very much, while a Blaser will make a hole in your face.

I do not like that.

Then again, driving my car every day is far more riskier, statistically, than fiering a Blaser. And I do it every day, without thinking about it.

I believe, when shit happens, it does.
You can shoot a M98 all your life, it does you no good when your dumb ass buddy think you are a deer.

One day I will own a Blaser, and it will be bliss.

HI Bent
I thought that we on an other forum had tested the statistic, but anyway her we go again,
HE HE FOSSDAL
Now for a litle statistic
The actual time it takes to fire a round,
is about 10-20/1000 of a second
There is about 100.000 Bla**r rifles in the world
Lets asume they in avarage has ben fiered 200 times
That results in a real fieringtime of 0.02sek x 200 x 100.000 whitch equals 400.000 sekonds = 111.11 hours. There has been at least 3 near fatal accidents. That equals 1 near fatal accidents pr 37 hour of real use.
I hope your driving is more safe than that

quote:

Originally posted by Bent Fossdal:


I believe, when shit happens, it does.
You can shoot a M98 all your life, it does you no good when your dumb ass buddy think you are a deer.

Hee! Hee! Hee!

However, as an additional safety precaution, I refuse to hunt with any person carrying a Remington.

I didn't mean to come off as harsh as my post now seems to read.

I have just never understood the need on the part of some people to blame the tool for operator error. And that happens more and more often nowadays with more and more tools - including cups of hot coffee.

And, for the record, I have R93 barrels in high pressure magnum calibers - 7mm Rem. Mag., .338 Win. Mag. and .375 H&H Mag. - as well as non-magnum, but still fairly high pressure rounds such as .25-06 and .308 Win.

The pins are inside the trigger housing, which is not easily removable by a non-armorer like me (it may even void the warranty to do so). So a photograph is not possible, at least for me. To my knowledge, no failure was ever attributed to the faulty pins anyway. The recall was just a precaution to prevent failure in case they were ever to corrode.

As for the formerly plastic, now aluminum, bolt fitting, I don't remember the details, but the plastic part was prone to failure, and would permit escaping gases to flare out of the action, maybe cause bolt failure of some sort, too. I don't remember any more than that about it, and don't know the part affected either, but I do know that the recall fixed the problem.

The kind of things that handloaders manage to do is sometimes hard to believe. Mixing powders by pouring the remnants of one container into another that is wrongly thought to be the same kind is commoner than we think, I would bet. As is just plain using the wrong powder.

As soon as I hear that the ammunition used in connection with any rifle failure was handloaded, I cannot help but lean towards an operator error theory.

And, again, to my knowledge, and I have looked into this out of pure self-interest, the ammo has always been to blame, or at least strongly suspect where blame could not necessarily be established, in these cases.

I am not worried about my R93s in any case, since my ammo is either store bought, or carefully, painstakingly handloaded, by me and me alone.

The dumbest thing I ever did was marry my ex-wife. I now have gray hair and a nervous tick .

This exercise has at least convinced me to learn to speak, read and write the German language. Everything sounds so definite. You tell a pretty girl you love her and it sounds like marching orders - I lIKE IT.

MR,

Do you have the "Safari" set-up for your 375 H&H barrel? How much does the rifle weigh with, say, a 338 Win Mag barrel attached?

Thanks,

LD

LD,

I have two R93s. One is set up for the .338 and the .375. It is not the heavy barreled, safari model. But it has the Kickstop, tungsten bead-filled recoil reducer in the buttstock and an old-style, Answer Products spring loaded recoil pad on it.

It was butt heavy as so modified, so I bought a half pound Breako mercury tube and screwed it into the forward sling swivel bolt at the tip of the fore end. It now balances perfectly.

I also had Answer Products install removable muzzle brakes on the .338 and .375 barrels for bench work. These really work. I use a threaded muzzle cap for hunting.

Fully scoped, the .375 weighs in at just under 10 lbs. The .338 is just an ounce or two heavier, because of the smaller hole in the same sized barrel.

This is my "heavy" R93 and I love it. It will shoot one holers all day long in both calibers, and is a joy to shoot.

My other one has no bells and whistles, and is much lighter, at 7-8 lbs. scoped, but is just as accurate with all barrels tried so far.

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:

I also had Answer Products install removable muzzle brakes on the .338 and .375 barrels for bench work. These really work. I use a threaded muzzle cap for hunting.

MR,

Did he have any trouble threading the nitrocarburized surface? And what kind of "blue" did he use to recover the exposed/unfinished metal?

Just curious, as I've never seen anyone with a threaded Blaser barrel over here (where suppressors/silencers are commonly used).

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:
HI Bent
I thought that we on an other forum had tested the statistic, but anyway her we go again,
HE HE FOSSDAL
Now for a litle statistic
The actual time it takes to fire a round,
is about 10-20/1000 of a second
There is about 100.000 Bla**r rifles in the world
Lets asume they in avarage has ben fiered 200 times
That results in a real fieringtime of 0.02sek x 200 x 100.000 whitch equals 400.000 sekonds = 111.11 hours. There has been at least 3 near fatal accidents. That equals 1 near fatal accidents pr 37 hour of real use.
I hope your driving is more safe than that

Oh, well.
If I had a Blaser, and shot it 500 times a year, and say I used it for 40 more years( yea I'll be 78, but hey, lets be optimistic!) - That would be almost 10 seconds a year with real use. Multiplied with 40, 400 seconds, or close to 7 minutes.
And it was one to 37 hours?
And the product has been improoved since theese accidents?

I'll take my chance, Greybeard!

quote:

Originally posted by ErikD:

MR,

Did he have any trouble threading the nitrocarburized surface? And what kind of "blue" did he use to recover the exposed/unfinished metal?

Just curious, as I've never seen anyone with a threaded Blaser barrel over here (where suppressors/silencers are commonly used).

Erik,
Funny, funny, funny!
I do not know what it is abouth the gunsmiths in eastern Norway and Blasers, but I can assure you that I thread many Blaser-barrels every week! I use cold blue on the threads and regular bluening an the cap.

Bent,

I wasn't aware that gunsmiths over here didn't thread Blaser barrels. I just haven't seen any, and presumed (incorrectly!) that there might be a reason!

I have to admit that the one thing I really liked about my Blaser was the nitrocarburized surface.

I have never used or seen a blued rifle that could withstand rust and scratches as well as the Blaser barrel.

In fact, I've been wondering if it's possible to have this nitrocarburizing done on other guns! Do you know if it can be done, and if so, where?

Also, is the nitrocarburized surface used on Blasers the same as the surface on the Mauser M03, and some Sauer rifles???

We can get the nitrocarburizing done over here easily, if not cheaply.

My LRSII came with a threaded barrel 18x1, I believe. Of course I had to put a suppressor on it.

That suppressor fits my Sako TRG 22 perfectly, as well.

LD

LD,

Not trying to highjack your thread too much, but could you tell me how much nitrocarburizing over there costs? And does it end up like as tough as the Blaser nitrocarburizing?

Erik,

Answer Products actually charged me an extra fee (something like $35 per barrel, IIRC) to thread each of my Blaser barrels, because they are so hard on the cutting tools.

But the work was very well done. The brakes are finished like the barrels, and are the same diameters and virtually seamless at the joints.

And I agree about the Blaser barrel finish. It is the absolute best thing going.

Talking passive shoter safety with a bla**r owner, remind me about talking common sence to my teenagerson. You gets the impression that both puts ther fingers into ther ears, and then starting of "nananananana"

Almost no doubts that most of the blowups is caused by high presure, though there are indications that the norwegian incidence was caused bu a brittle casehead. Atleast ther was no definit sighns of high presure, bu ther was a crack running up the side of the casehead.
So far the facts is that many brands of rifles has blown up, but olmost soly bla**rs, and one single wea, has send the bolt flying back in the shooters face.
So far ther has ben delivered no objective evidence of the problems beeing solved. No public test showing a bla**r beeing blown up showing that the bolt stays in place. If they realy would proof that it is just as safe as all other rifles, it would be a simple test to preforme in front of a groop of jurnalists. It would be what i call a fantastic marketing thing.

Firearms when the fail should fail safe. The Mauser 98 system does this. It appears that Blasers are not as well designed despite their many "neat" design features.

Maybe we could rivet some high strenth cables to the barrel extension and the back of the bolt. Like the leash I use with my Pointer dogs.

I really like Jørgens idea! Would there be any gun journals out there interested in buing a Blaser, a Mauser, a remington, a Sako and a Winchester, and blow them up with highly overpressured loads? Photograph the thing, and see how the actions reacts when blown apart? Would be very interesting, something I would LOVE to read!!! If not, maybe we could pull together and have this done? If someone on this forum have the technical knowledge and facilities to do this, I would be happy to be one of the people contributing a small sum of green.
Off topic: Anyone know which Pachmayr pad would fit the butt of the Blaser synthetic stock? The pad that is factory installed is one of two things I dont like with my Blaser R93 in 300WSM.

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:
Talking passive shoter safety with a bla**r owner, remind me about talking common sence to my teenagerson. You gets the impression that both puts ther fingers into ther ears, and then starting of "nananananana"

Jørgen, Sir, I know the Blaser rifle is dangerous to a sertain limit. So is drinking alcohol, and I am sertainly not going to stop doing that. And I do that a lot more than 10 seconds a year!

It is like smoking, we know it is stupid and lethal, yet............

The things I do and the risks I take while hunting in this area:

Fjærlandsfjorden, Norway, standing 3400 feet above the fjord. The area to be hunted is - below - us.

- is a lot more dangerous than shooting a Blaser - and I know it! Yet, it is the highlight of the hunting season - and the whole year!

So I agree with you in every way, as for the lack of safety in the Blaser construction, but is it really enough to avoid it? To me it is not, simple as that.

Cheers, Jørgen, with all my respect!

quote:

Originally posted by Bent Fossdal:

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:
Talking passive shoter safety with a bla**r owner, remind me about talking common sence to my teenagerson. You gets the impression that both puts ther fingers into ther ears, and then starting of "nananananana"

Jørgen, Sir, I know the Blaser rifle is dangerous to a sertain limit. So is drinking alcohol, and I am sertainly not going to stop doing that. And I do that a lot more than 10 seconds a year!

It is like smoking, we know it is stupid and lethal, yet............

The things I do and the risks I take while hunting in this area:

Fjærlandsfjorden, Norway, standing 3400 feet above the fjord. The area to be hunted is - below - us.

- is a lot more dangerous than shooting a Blaser - and I know it! Yet, it is the highlight of the hunting season - and the whole year!

So I agree with you in every way, as for the lack of safety in the Blaser construction, but is it really enough to avoid it? To me it is not, simple as that.

Cheers, Jørgen, with all my respect!

Why dont you invite me to hunt there Beautifull place

The comparing of rifle safety, to the risk of smoking or drinking alcohol, should be looked this way.
You can compare the safetylevel of a remmington to the risk of getting blind from drinking a Jack Daniels, and bla**r to drinking moonshine(hembrent)

Personaly i dont mind taking risks, as long as i ame aware of the risk level compared to using other products for the same purpose.
Over the years i have don my part of stupid things and learned the hard way, what can happens. But i never regretted how i lived, and i guess i wil go one making stupid things in the future. But i would never bungyjump in a worn and rotten elastic, if a new one is awalable

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:
But i would never bungyjump in a worn and rotten elastic, if a new one is awalable

Hehe, the cord is not the weak link, it is your dumb ass buddy who straps it to your feet!

You would be more than welcome to the hunt, Jørgen, but...the path up is just as steep as the path down...and you being Danish and all.....
But if you think you can swing it, I'll sign you up for next year!

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:
No public test showing a bla**r beeing blown up showing that the bolt stays in place. If they realy would proof that it is just as safe as all other rifles, it would be a simple test to preforme in front of a groop of jurnalists. It would be what i call a fantastic marketing thing.

Hmm, maybe we could convince Saeed to do these tests Since Waltherhogs blaser 93 is no longer permitted to travel to Africa it could be donated to scientific experiments, sorry Walther if I influenced Saeed on the African ban- it was for your own good

This experiment would do great on the video section of AR, even better entertainment would be to see the Blaser management trying to pull their very best legal codswallop to prevent this video from being shown to the public

Cheers
/JOHAN

After reading this thread the R93 seems like a good rifle to stay away from. And not stand behind it when someone else is shooting.