Someone brought me a rifle with a live round stuck in the chamber. The extractor had ripped through the rim. Next is a brass rod down the barrel jammed in between the bullet and bore - not protruding. Any suggestions on how to get the cartridge out? Its a Mauser 308.

So far, I have thought of making a drill guide to drill a small hole next to the primer so as to get oil into the case to disarm it. Then I am thinking of drilling out the base of the case, tapping the hole and using a slide hammer screwed into the case base to extract it. This would be a pretty time consuming exercise!

Pull the barrel and try to get on the cartidge base to twist it out. I wouldn't drill it; that causes heat. I have removed live berdan primers with a berdan tool but only on empty cases, not ones that will turn into flying shrapnel if you slip up.

Only other thing Ic ould imagine is air pressure but the case is going to pop so the barrel needs to be pointed in two safe directions.

Put the whole thing in a freezer for a while and see if something moves enough to get the rod out then go from there. Curious as to what is screwed up that would cause round to be stuck in the first place.

Been there, done that many times. Piece of cake!

Pull barrel, squirt some Kroil or other penetrant around the case. Grab onto the case head with pliers and pull. If that doesn't dislodge the beast, then, carefully drill a small hole in the brass as far away from the primer as possible and flood the case with WD 40. Let it sit for a while. Carefully saw the case in half and scrape out the powder. Chuck the barrel in a lathe and with a small boring bar, begin parting it out.

WARNING WARNING

I have heard of 2 different instances at Bench Rest Matches where some one tried to remove a stuck live round by trying to knock it out with a cleaning rod. The rounds fired and if I remember correctly there were deaths in both instances, in one it was the shooters wife.

I recommend very strongly against drilling any holes anywhere in the cartridge case with an electric drill, as long as it is a live round.

Even with a drill that can turn the bit as slow as 1 rpm, there is always the chance your finger will slip on the drill trigger, the drill will turn rapidly enough to create heat, and the cartridge fire.

Not at all likely to happen, but once will be more than enough. If it does happen, the bullet will go out one end of the barrel and the cartridge case out the other, both potentially with considerable velocity.

One other thing, when you have pulled the barrel and are trying to take the cartridge out of the chamber, DO NOT stand so any part of you is either behind the chamber or in front of the muzzle. I know you are intelligent enough not to do either of those things, just reminding you.

Actually, the first thing I would do, is remove the bolt. Then, I'd make a two piece "slide hammer" that you can put around the cleaning rod to knock the rod out of the barrel. Then with the rod out, I would pull the barrel and "worry" the case out of the chamber with a pair of water-pump pliers. I alter the plier jaws to provide a good grip on the case head (if the case head protrudes enough from the chamber to be gripped at all).

Odds are if it didn't come out with the above, I'd sell the customer a new barrel rather than take unneccesary risks.

If he didn't want to buy a new barrel, I'd let him take it somewhere else. One is in business to help customers solve reasonable problems, not to risk personal injury because of their stupidity. Blunt, I know, but I don't have time today to think up a nicer way to say it.

I would pull the barrel then freeze the whole thing. For two days. Then pour boiling water over the chamber are but not over the catridge base. The difference in expansion should be enough to enable you to turn the round out with pipe wrenches.

I bought a tool from Brownells just for this very cause. It has a collet that tightens up on the remainder of the rim. Has a slide hammer in the rear section. I have the collet for a belted mag case. Other collets are available from Brownells. The whole tool was $100. You are welcome to use it.

I think you will be able to get that brass rod out by "bounceing" the muzzle on a piece of hardwood. The inertia should allow that stcuk brass rod to exit. It may be wedged in tight enought to cock the bullet binding the case neck and preventing removal of the case even with a good grip on the case head. Once the rod is out, I would fill the barrel with 2-3 inches of Kroil and let her soak. If it does not come out easily, then put it in the freezer. Only as a last resort would I drill or lathe turn the head from a live round (but I have seen that done successfully)

Good luck


Roger

Clamp the barreled action in a vise vertically and fill the barrel with oil. Then take a bore sized steel rod with a patch on it to make a tight fit and insert it to the top of the oil with a foot of the rod sticking out.

Hit the end of the rod with a three pound hammer.

It makes a mess and you might have to recrown the barrel afterwards depending upon how square you hit the hammer.

Chuck the barrel in the lathe & FLOOD the case head with collant as you are SLOWLY parting it off with a sharp & pointed tool.

Could you pack the barrel with grease and knock a tight fitting wood dowel down the bore? I have removed bearings that were blind pressed in this way.

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Originally posted by J_Zola:
Could you pack the barrel with grease and knock a tight fitting wood dowel down the bore? I have removed bearings that were blind pressed in this way.

I believe there is another item jamed in the bore.

Just wondering,could the bullet be pulled out like on a muzzle loader where a screw end piece is turned into the lead end and just pulled out of the case & the powder dumped?Might have to just rebarrel to be safe if nothing else works?bubby could tie it to a tree and run a cannon fuse in it and shoot it out while standing behind a concret block building....would be a good one for myth busters,maybe they can do a show around it and you can make enough money for a custom rifle....Let us know how it makes out,this is interesting....

Ok maybe not that tight.

I'm just a spectator not a professional but I have to ask...
if the cleaning rod wasn't there is there any reason the bolt couldn't be closed and the round fired?

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Originally posted by Recoil Rob:
I'm just a spectator not a professional but I have to ask...
if the cleaning rod wasn't there is there any reason the bolt couldn't be closed and the round fired?

I would want to know why a live round was stuck before firing it.

I had a gun come to me back about 1985 with a round stuck in the chamber. The bolt would not close so the customer did the only thing he could. He placed a small diameter wooden dowel down the bore to knock the round out except instead of disloging the round, the dowel broke off below the muzzle. Not letting something so benign stop him, he grabbed the next thing that was close at hand and removed the ferrals from it's fiberglas shaft and drove it in until it too broke, below the muzzle. Of course they didn't tell me that. I found out later after he left when I tried to place a rod down the muzzle.

I pulled the barrel to have a look see. The stuck round was marked 30-06. The gun was a 25-06 and so I naturally assumed it was a 25-06 in a necked down 06 case. This guy couldn't have been that smart. Nope, by the time I was finished I had what was left of the fishing pole, the dowel and the 30-06, lying in a heap on the shop floor. Idiots!

Thread the last 1/4" of the barrel ID for a hydraulic fitting and put some pressure down the tube while you're standing on the other side of a concrete or steel wall.

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
Curious as to what is screwed up that would cause round to be stuck in the first place.

I have seen and heard of this a couple of times. in each case it was someone puting someone elses kneck sized cases in their rifle. Only shoot someone elses hand loads if they resize and you know their OAL.
In each case they used their cleaning rods and rammed them down the barrel to dislodge the stuck rounds.

If there is any rim left on the case you could try slipping a shellholder over the rim and leveraging it out with a screwdriver. Those colletted extractors like leemar28 has work well I have been told (never used one myself)

If it starts getting too complicated better think about pulling the barrel...

Thanks for all the helpful ideas folks.

Thanks for your kind offer leemar28.

I was thinking of drilling via a tubular guide set up in a mill - I don't like that idea too much. Drilling near the live primer!

The rod is below the muzzle. I did try filling the bore with oil and driving a brass ram down it. Didn't work. I have thought of connecting the muzzle to a hydraulic pump. I have not tried inertia extraction of the rod. I didn't think that smacking the muzzle against a block of wood would come near hammer blows. I'll try that next. I also thought of a collet type slide hammer. I am trying to avoid pulling the barrel - it's not what I do and I would have to make a barrel vise. Besides, I didn't jamm the cartridge or the rod. If that rod wasn't there, I dare say the cartridge could be fired. Just not by me! And I did not ask how the cartridge got stuck. But I am taking the warning by N E 450 No2 very seriously. Which is why I accepted the challenge in the first place.
Oh, I might also try the freezer idea. I actually thought of chilling the cartridge base cryogenically. But I only have access to LPG. So, no. I thought of filling the bore with water, plugging the muzzle and freezing it. But any air will absorb the expansion of the ice forming.

Tomorrow, I shall simply fit a tube down the bore, use an extended drill, and drill and tap into the end of that rod and fit a slide hammer to get it out. Then I might look into drilling a hole into the end of the bullet (if it hasn't been pushed into the case) and flood the powder with oil. Then I'll get the guy to fire the primer and then I can drill and tap the case head and use a slide hammer to get it out. We'll see how far I get!

Thanks again all! I'll keep you posted on my progress.

Please, be careful!

I dunno if this would work or not, and how easy it might be depends on front sight location, but you might try connecting an air hose to it with a couple of clamps, and pumping it up to 125 PSI or so, while trying to lever the round out as pressure rises. I'd put a good handful of rags behind the chamber to cushion it if it does work. The hydralic pump will work for sure but making it hold might be more work than you bargained for.

A 3 minute job with the correct tool. I have posted this before so here you are again. Make up an 360 extractor from an old 8mm mauser barrel. I had a set up for 3006, 222, and 300 H&H. Also a short extractor to extract cases from the 740 Rem without having to remore the barrel. The allen head screw is 1/4 X 20 and one side of the tool is threaded and the other is clearance so it will tighten up on the case head. Use a bar against the receiver to use as a lever to pull the case. I first used this tool in 1964 as a young gunsmith in a shop that started in 1935. These guys had all types of tools that most never get to see. _

quote:

Please, be careful!

You bet! Thanks, I will.

Gatogordo, I am thinking that since this guy did it to himself, threading the end of his barrel would be in order. It might be the safest option, now that I think about it.

LesBrooks, I looked at the idea of making a four or five piece collet type device that could be 'fed' around the rim through the torn off gap. (Not much room there). At the end of my next attempt, should I fail, I shall get back to you for a more detailed description, if I may.

In the end, it is this warning ....

quote:

..... remove a stuck live round by trying to knock it out with a cleaning rod. The rounds fired and if I remember correctly there were deaths in both instances, in one it was the shooters wife.

I tried to post a picture to show the tool, but it wouldn't work this time.

Here is the details. I use a piece of military barrel because it is like spring steel. Turn the end of the piece inside the same size as the case head and the recess in front of the case head. Angle this to the inside so it will slip over the case head after you split length wise for about 2 inches. The major diameter of the piece is about .700 so it will fit inside an action like a bolt. Turn the extractor end down about .050 dia. to about .650. It will slip over the rim and then the allen head screw will tighten over the rim like an extractor all around the case. This has never failed to pull a stuck case and it is about as safe as one can be. I don't like to use the Brownell's because of the sudden jar of the sliding hammer to the rear. A slow extraction will be less likely to set off a primer in my opinion.

Remove the case at your own risk!!!!

If you PM me I will send you pictures of the tool.

I am no gunsmith, but what would happen if you filled the barrel with a copper solvent and let it set? Some "claim" not to hurt the barrel and are fairly fast.

quote:

Originally posted by Moorepower:
I am no gunsmith, but what would happen if you filled the barrel with a copper solvent and let it set? Some "claim" not to hurt the barrel and are fairly fast.

Now there is an idea! I could just give the barreled action back to the guy and let him do that. Good one!

Thank you LesBrooks. I thought a picture was missing. I'll PM you. Thanks again.

quote:

...... 2 different instances at Bench Rest Matches where some one tried to remove a stuck live round by trying to knock it out with a cleaning rod. The rounds fired ..... there were deaths in both instances ....

I have figured out how this could happen. The mauser action in my case hase has a spring loaded ejector which follows a groove cut through one of the locking lugs. When the bolt is removed, this ejector protrudes into the action right in the centre line of the action. Right where a live round would be knocked back should it have been stuck in the chamber! Holy shitt!!! This guy could have killed someone in his own lounge!

It is highly unlikely that death will occur from ignition of an unconfined round, there just isn't enough pressure produced for real penetration of the case which becomes the "projectile" normally. Not that I'd want to be standing there looking at it, you understand.

That's why I said put rags behind the round if you tried to use air.

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:
...a live round stuck in the chamber (with) a brass rod down the barrel jammed in between the bullet and bore - not protruding. Any suggestions on how to get the cartridge out? Its a Mauser ...

Hey 303Guy, Fortunately it is a Mouser and not an excellent Remington, so this suggestion is suitable.

Remove the Scope if one is on it, the sling and take the Bolt out. Put the "wooden" stock back on it.

Take a 55gal barrel and cut two holes in opposite sides near the top. Place kindling and additional wood in the barrel(other wood stocks would be fine). Mount the Mouser through the two cut outs and align the Action of the rifle so the rear is pointing toward a hill, ocean or democrat headquarters.

Douse the inside of the barrel with half a gallon of gas(too expensive), a bit of burnt motor oil. Light a stick of Fat Lighter and drop it in the barrel. Move behind some trees and enjoy some cool ones.

Eventually the wooden stock should get going hot enough to "Cook Off" the Primer. That should ignite the Powder in the Case(if your buddy put any in it) and cause the Case to become "loose".

Check on it the next day and it should be cool enough to touch. The "Danger" is now removed and you can use the rest of the Mouser as a short tomato stake.

Best of luck to you.

Many years ago.... a friend had a .30-'06 factory ctg. that failed to fire in a Model 70. We were curious, suspected that the primer may not have had an anvil, etc. Pulled the bullet, dumped the powder and squeezed the case in a vise, leaving the rear so that we could access case head. My intention was to hacksaw through the side of the case, to the primer and release the tension on the primer, allowing us to remove the primer for inspection.
The heat of sawing caused the primer to ignite. No injuries but quite a surprise.
DO NOT DO ANY MACHINING NEAR A LIVE PRIMER.

I have never failed to remove a stuck cartridge from a barrel using the shellholder and two screwdrivers technique where it was possible to get the shellholder on the case. Where it was not possible (coned breech) a collet-like tool did the trick. Regards, Bill.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
It is highly unlikely that death will occur from ignition of an unconfined round, there just isn't enough pressure produced for real penetration of the case which becomes the "projectile" normally. Not that I'd want to be standing there looking at it, you understand.

That's why I said put rags behind the round if you tried to use air.

Likely or unlikely, it DID occur at an IBS registered match.

Fellow had a live round stuck in his benchrest rifle. He took the bolt out, had his wife stand behind the bench and hold the gun steady on the bags, and he put a cleaning rod down the barrel to knock the round out.

He hit the handle end of the cleaning rod a few strong whacks. The round fired. The round WAS confined everywhere except at the breech end of the barrel. The bore was plugged by the rod at the instant of ignition, confining the front of the cartridge, and the cartridge sides were supported by the chamber walls.

The cartridge case was fired from the chamber, through the open receiver rings and into the abdomen of his wife as she held the gun. She died as a result.

If you look back through the issues of Precision Shooting between 1996 and 2000 you will find a report of the incident, as Precision Shooting is the official journal of the IBS.

quote:

If you look back through the issues of Precision Shooting between 1996 and 2000 you will find a report of the incident, as Precision Shooting is the official journal of the IBS.

This was also written up in Rifle Magazine.

Make sure you have somebody video tape the whole thing so we can all watch it on "America's Funniest Home Videos".

If you're lucky you could win the $10K prize!

quote:

....Fortunately it is a Mouser and not an excellent Remington, .....

Good one Hot Core!

Thanks for that, OMJ.