I just placed an order for a .358 stainless barrel from Kreiger, and they told me that after the first of the year they will no longer take orders for barrels made of 410 alloy stainless steel. The difference between 410 and 416 satinless is that 410 is a much tougher alloy so it allows for lighter contour barrels than 416 stainless, but 410 alloy is a lot harder on tools and more difficult to machine. An example of the difference is that they will make a .358 barrel as small as a #4 contour in 410 alloy, but the smallest contour in 416 alloy stainless they will make is a #6, which would weigh about a pound more.

This is interesting info. I wonder if any other barrel maker is using 410 alloy? or do they all use the 416?

I am under the impression that 17-4 stainless is harder than both 410,416.

BLACKSTAR BARRELS use 17-4. Some complain its a p.i.t.ass to machine.

Types Of Stainless

17-4 process for the technically minded: HERE

Woodjack, isn't Lothar Walther still making Blackstar barrels and are they still in business?
I think the stainless that LW uses is called LW50, is that 17-4?
Butch

To my knowledge Kreiger is the only barrel manufacturer who has a problem making smaller contour barrels in stainless, every other one out there will make you any contour you want, stainless or chrome moly. Since most of my rifles are stainless, and I don't want to tote around an arty tube, I've never been able to use a kreiger barrel. I think their concerns about low temperatures and stainless are unfounded, I've never heard of a stainless barrel failing in low temps. However, if they want to keep their policy this way then thankfully there are lots of other barrel makers that will make what I want. Kreiger is just costing itself business by doing this.

I bought a Kreiger #2 lightweight 30 caliber barrel last year for a customer. I was told it would have to be in 410 instead of 416. It machined urned and threaded very nicely. When I went to stamp it it was harder than the standard 416. I was chambered in 300 WSM and shoots sub moa. I was told by Kreiger that the 410 was used because they were worried about hunting rifles being used in extremely cold weather. The rifle I built has been to Canada twice and shot at -30 and did fine. John Kreiger has always strived to make the finest cut rifling barrels that could be made. Just look at what the winners are shooting.
Longshot

Butch,
Your correct, Blackstar-Lothar

I Cannot find the WL website refering to LW50 as 17-4, however this site does HERE

WL claims 17-4 to be better than 416Lothar Walther Barrel Material

Woodjack,
I found another site that said that LW50 was 17-4. I guess you are right.
Butch

Longshot has it right on! If you are not shooting a Krieger barrel, Sierra Match bullets, you are missing two main elements to good shooting. I have yet to find a barrel by other mfg.'s equal to the Kriegers in over 40 plus years of long range match shooting.

quote:

I've never heard of a stainless barrel failing in low temps.

What about the stainless Sakos that were blowing up in low temps right and left a year or two ago? As I recall, several people were injured.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

quote:

Originally posted by 400 Nitro Express:

quote:

I've never heard of a stainless barrel failing in low temps.

What about the stainless Sakos that were blowing up in low temps right and left a year or two ago? As I recall, several people were injured.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

That was a bad batch of steel, poorly alloyed with inclusions in it. Temperature had nothing to do it, barrels were failing in average and high temperatures. Krieger says that all 416 SS is more succeptible to failure at low temperatures.

BTW, My first choice for a custom long range or target barrel is a Krieger stainless steel barrel.

7 or 8 years ago (or maybe even 10+), John Krieger was one of our speakers at the ACGG Monday seminars. At that time a number of barrel makers were having problems with guns coming apart in Alaska that winter and John stopped makeing any stainless barrels until he knew for sure what the problem was.

Yes he may have lost some business during that process but he did it for the good of his customers and not because it was easier for him not to build them.

He is one of the most respected barrel builders that we have ever had. I would not argue with his motives but if I was curious, I would call and ask him. I am not but I do know you can be assured his reasoning is based on good solid information and he is likely do it to protect us from any possible danger.

And if you would do a search you will find numerous horror stories connected with the early Blackstar barrels. That was not LW's fault, they built the barrels to the spec of the company that ordered them, unfortunately they were a royal crap shoot.

quote:

Originally posted by driver:
Longshot has it right on! If you are not shooting a Krieger barrel, Sierra Match bullets, you are missing two main elements to good shooting. I have yet to find a barrel by other mfg.'s equal to the Kriegers in over 40 plus years of long range match shooting.

Have you ever taken an action to a smith, had it barreled with a krieger barrel, shot it quite a bit, kept accurate records, and then taken the same action to the same smith, used the same reamer and the same installation procedures, shot it quite a bit, on the same sort of day as with the Krieger, or indoors, and compared.

In otherwords, the same is the same, and different is different. If everything wasn't done exactly the same with both barrels, then there was more than one variable to compare, or in otherwords, it may have been something other than the barrel itself!

If the 14 to 16 week wait for barrels is any indication of how bad their business has been hurt I would bet that they were sitting around trying to figure out more ways to hurt their business.

Krieger also makes the barrels for at least two other companies building rifles that I know of, Barrett and Weatherby. The Weatherby barrels are button rifled and made by Kriegers Centurion barrel company.