Advertisement in SA's Magnum magazine reads:
'How to keep your game tame'.

Has any of you guys had any experience with the use of sound suppressors on your rifles?

Does it keep the game more undisturbed at the dampened sound after the shot was taken?
Or is it a myth?

Claims are also made that these gadgets reduce recoil as well.
True or false?

I have not shot one, but I live in a rice farming community where pigs are pests. We don't "hunt" pigs, rather we say "let's go kill some pigs...or let's go shoot some hogs."

Our local gunshop does $100K/year in suppressor and night vision sales. They are very good at what they do. Most of the guys have them on AR platforms with night vision stuff. Dunno about the recoil, most guys use .223 b/c of the night stuff.

What I've been told game do not hear where the shot comes from, just the crack of the bullet overhead. They don't tend to run away immediately as with a non suppressed shot so you can kill the shit out of them.

Truth be known I absolutely love eating wild hog, but they are such a nuisance I have become so disgusted I haven't butchered one in years.

It has to be understood that if the velocity of the bullet is above the speed of sound then the volume of sound is diminished but is still audable. With sub-sonic velocity there is no sound at all.
What hapens with high velocity rounds is that the sound is muffled quite a bit and the direction is more difficult for the animal to establish. I have hunted with friends who have supressed 223 and 270 and I would say the sound is cut by a good 50% or more. Recoild is definately reduced.
I have also been in a target butt when both rifles have been fired at both 100 and 200 yds. There is a difinite crack of the bullet as it is through the sound barrier although this is localised to where you are in regards to the bullet so origin of sound is more difficult to ascertain. The sound of the burning powder which we usually asociate with the bang is more subdued and overlayed by the crack of the bullet /sound barrier.
The up-shot is that any remaining animals (if there is more than one because you obviously killed the first or only one with one shot) are confused as to where the sound / danger came from. I have seen them run towards the rifle untill another shot or two re-educated them. They do react much slower than when I use mu 7x57 which has no supressor.

Von Gruff.

I was at the range over two years ago. A young man was there shooting a .308Win target rifle from prone. He had one on his. The sound was much like the "thwack " you hear when you swat a fly with a plastic flyswatter. It was not loud at all. It also seemed to tame the recoil because the young man was shooting his shots in fairly rapid succession. If it was kicking him, I suppose he'd slow down a bit, huh?

Yesterday, there was a young fellow at the range with a suppressor on his 308 AR. Very nice. I asked him about the cost and he said the suppressor was about $900 and the permit $200, and he had to wait six months for it.

He shot it a lot, maybe 50-75 rounds, and the rifle apparantly was something special because he was getting 1" to 1 & 1/2 inch groups at 200 yards. The cartridges were FMJ full power factory loads, and the sound was about what I would expect from a 22 LR or maybe a 22 mag. I was very impressed, more so than anything I have seen at the range in a long time, maybe ever.

I'm having a 458 WM built right now with a short barrel, with the intention of suppressing it later. First I'm going to test it thoroughly for accuracy, and load development. My goal is to use 350 - 405 gr jacketed soft flat nose bullets and either Trail Boss or 4759 powder for a velocity at the muzzel just under subsonic threshold. That heavy large diameter bullet will give me a useful range and trajectory of 100 -125 yards. Calculated out - subsonic at the muzzle - at 100 yards the energy of the 400 gr .458 bullet exceeds the standard 44 mag 240 gr factory load at the muzzle. That ought to be plenty of thump for hogs, and plenty fun - and quiet too.

You just can't get the foot pounds of energy out of a .308 bullet, limited to subsonic at the muzzle, and expect to use it as a legitimate 100 yd hunting rifle. Staying subsonic, the only way I see is to increase the bullet weight and diameter. Fifty caliber, or even larger, would be better on paper, but the difficulty of matching the action with the cartridge, and also finding cheap bullets that have the potential to expand a little, and brass, and the expense of such a project, all say loud and clear that the .458 flat nose jacketed bullets are the right path to probable success. If the suppressor idea doesn't work out, I've still got a very useful bolt action .458 WM, which will make an excellent moose getter with full power loads using 400 gr Swift bullets.

I'm anxious to see just how quiet it is subsonic, but I gotta throw some money at it first. I was shooting a friends Marlin 45-70 a few weeks ago, and he had some handloads with Trail Boss, and 350 gr cast bullets at about 1200 fps, which was a pleasure to shoot and very accurate and mild blast even though not suppressed. At least it was encouraging, and I'm expecting the Ruger bolt action .458 to perform perhaps even better.

KB

quote:

The cartridges were full-power factory loads, and the sound was about what I would expect from a 22 LR or maybe a 22 mag.

I say "buy one," Jag...

quote:

Originally posted by homebrewer:

I say "buy one," Jag...

Thanks for your feedback, guys.

Yes, it sounds good enough to give it a go!

quote:

I have hunted with friends who have supressed 223 and 270 and I would say the sound is cut by a good 50% or more. Recoild is definately reduced.

Should really work great on my sons .270 FN Sauer.

In SA a reputable suppressor with 10 baffles built-in only costs R950 i.e. ± $130 at current rates of exchange. Só, total cost to fit it should not be more than R1200 or ± $165.

Will try it as soon as local manufacturer can supply - 4 to 6 week waiting period at present plus gunsmith's time to fit it properly.

If you use it on anything that goes supersonic it's pretty much a waste of money and does nothing but add weight.

I own two. After I bought the second one (Gemteh M4 piranha) I called the nice folks at Gemteh to ask them what it was good for. If you shoot regular velocity bullets through it, it's still very loud. If you shoot subsonics it doesn't have any knock down power. Thier answer was just a sales pitch.

After I shot it a few times I pulled the can off my AR-15 and put it on a rimfire bolt gun where it lives today.

IMO, the best bang for the buck when it comes to cans is use them for rimfire and pistol cartridges.


Terry

TC1, I looked at the Gemtech Sandstorm for 7.62 rifles and they say:

quote:

An all new baffle design gives better accuracy while still aggressively muting sound and flash signature.

The sound suppressor manufactured in South Africa which I'm considering for my son's .270 has nothing to do with accuracy of the rifle. If rifle is shooting accurately before it will still do so after suppressor was fitted.

It dampens sound extremely effectively for the animal that is hunted out there in the field.
With 10 baffles in the unit guys who use it says ±50% of sound is dampened at the point where rifle is fired and 100% to the animal from 100 meters and further away from the point of firing the rifle.

So much so that when a Blesbuck was shot with a rifle fitted with one of these suppressors, his mate standing right behind him, just stood and stared at the one in front of him dropping dead.

Sounds if our local suppressors are quite different from the ones you are using

quote:

Originally posted by Jagter:
TC1, I looked at the Gemtech Sandstorm for 7.62 rifles and they say:

quote:

An all new baffle design gives better accuracy while still aggressively muting sound and flash signature.

The sound suppressor manufactured in South Africa which I'm considering for my son's .270 has nothing to do with accuracy of the rifle. If rifle is shooting accurately before it will still do so after suppressor was fitted.

It dampens sound extremely effectively for the animal that is hunted out there in the field.
With 10 baffles in the unit guys who use it says ±50% of sound is dampened at the point where rifle is fired and 100% to the animal from 100 meters and further away from the point of firing the rifle.

So much so that when a Blesbuck was shot with a rifle fitted with one of these suppressors, his mate standing right behind him, just stood and stared at the one in front of him dropping dead.

Sounds if our local suppressors are quite different from the ones you are using

Sounds more like a sales pitch to me. When a bullet leaves a barrel at supersonic speeds it makes a sonic boom heard as a very loud "crack" when the gun is fired. There is absolutely nothing a baffle can do about that. You could put 20 of them in a can and it would make absolutely no difference. The guy's that build our cans claim a lot of bullshit they can't back up too so in that reguard they're pretty much the same.

Terry

TC1, there's no sales pitch in it as you claim. The quoted happening was observed and confirmed by a co-hunter - not the manufacturer of the suppressor. Those are facts.

Von Gruff describes it very clearly in his post:

quote:

It has to be understood that if the velocity of the bullet is above the speed of sound then the volume of sound is diminished but is still audable. With sub-sonic velocity there is no sound at all.
What hapens with high velocity rounds is that the sound is muffled quite a bit and the direction is more difficult for the animal to establish. I have hunted with friends who have supressed 223 and 270 and I would say the sound is cut by a good 50% or more. Recoild is definately reduced.
I have also been in a target butt when both rifles have been fired at both 100 and 200 yds. There is a difinite crack of the bullet as it is through the sound barrier although this is localised to where you are in regards to the bullet so origin of sound is more difficult to ascertain. The sound of the burning powder which we usually asociate with the bang is more subdued and overlayed by the crack of the bullet /sound barrier.
The up-shot is that any remaining animals (if there is more than one because you obviously killed the first or only one with one shot) are confused as to where the sound / danger came from. I have seen them run towards the rifle untill another shot or two re-educated them. They do react much slower than when I use mu 7x57 which has no supressor.

Anyhow, we know what to expect and get when using the locally manufactured suppressor - must say, a hell of a lot cheaper than that Gemtech stuff!!!

Yeah, the class III dealer here makes his own cans too and claims they are better than everybody elses just like all can builders do. That said, if you shoot a bullet at supersonic speed out of any can it's still VERY loud. Until the suppressor can break the laws of physics they aren't facts as you say, just mere claims. When a weapon is fired it makes sound in two way's. 1. The sound of the gunpowder burning. This can be controlled. 2. The sound of the bullet breaking the speed of sound as it leaves the barrel. This cannot.

The price of the can is irrelevent.

Terry

TC1 wrote:

quote:

When a weapon is fired it makes sound in two way's. 1. The sound of the gunpowder burning. This can be controlled. 2. The sound of the bullet breaking the speed of sound as it leaves the barrel. This cannot.

100% correct!

Von Gruff stated that 50% of your no. 1 is controlled at the point the rifle is fired. Jagter also pointed out that another co-hunter observed and reported the same.

This second bit seems to escape you, see if you can grasp it now:

quote:

There is a difinite crack of the bullet as it is through the sound barrier although this is localised to where you are in regards to the bullet so origin of sound is more difficult to ascertain.

In your cold world the air must be thicker than in sunny and hot South Africa and that is perhaps why your 'crack' is that much louder than ours.

Hope you got it now under control.

quote:

IMO, the best bang for the buck when it comes to cans is use them for rimfire and pistol cartridges.

My view is the exact opposite of yours. I really like my .300 whisper shooting a 240 grain Sierra bullet subsonic. It doesn't have the speed but it kills the crap out of stuff when you drill them in the head. A 240 grain subsonic bullet is much better than a 39 grain subsonic .22 bullet.

Sweden, UK and Finland use them for hunting.

I suffer from tinnitus despite having good hearing. One shot from an unsupressed rifle sets it off even with double ear protection.

I've tested numerous suppressors on 243. The best allow me to shoot with no ear protection without lasting affect if a really good deer presents and I've not got muffs on because it's hot and I don't have time.

I prefer carrying rifles without supressors, I resisted using one for years, I still have unsuppressed rifles BUT I can tell you that a really good moderator mounted on a hunting rifle will have you reaching for that rifle over the most beautiful piece of controlled round feed, custom rifle wonder you ever saw. It's hard but it's true. I have a safe full of wonderful rifles and use a suppressed M700 243 99%of the time.

quote:

Originally posted by M16:

quote:

IMO, the best bang for the buck when it comes to cans is use them for rimfire and pistol cartridges.

My view is the exact opposite of yours. I really like my .300 whisper shooting a 240 grain Sierra bullet subsonic. It doesn't have the speed but it kills the crap out of stuff when you drill them in the head. A 240 grain subsonic bullet is much better than a 39 grain subsonic .22 bullet.

Yeah, and the 240gr .308 pretty much sucks for squirrels, not to mention it's rainbow trajectory. You've assumed too much if you think I would use a .22LR on deer.

The reason I like pistol bullets at low velocity is because they are designed to work at those speeds. Plus, the cans designed for most pistol cartridges are made of aluminum not stainless steel. A 1 1/2 pound can doesn't seem that heavy until you screw it on a 20"-24" barrel and give it some leverage.


Why is it important for big game not to hear you shoot? I can't remember how many times I've shot a deer with a hot loaded belted magnum with two animals standing together. one falls and the one left standing stays without running off stairing at the one on the ground.

I own 2 cans and have shot a few more. I like them but pretty much find them worthless for hunting anything but squirrels. On big game, when I pull the trigger the hunt is over with anyway.

Terry

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:
If you use it on anything that goes supersonic it's pretty much a waste of money and does nothing but add weight.

I own two. After I bought the second one (Gemteh M4 piranha) I called the nice folks at Gemteh to ask them what it was good for. If you shoot regular velocity bullets through it, it's still very loud. If you shoot subsonics it doesn't have any knock down power. Thier answer was just a sales pitch.

After I shot it a few times I pulled the can off my AR-15 and put it on a rimfire bolt gun where it lives today.

IMO, the best bang for the buck when it comes to cans is use them for rimfire and pistol cartridges.


Terry

I have to disagree with this. I hunt with (2) Ops Inc. cans, one 5.56 and one 7.62. I love both of them and can tell a HUGE difference in how calm game is when one is fired. Both are on M700 bolt guns and the 308 sounds about like a 22lr, the 223 even quieter. I have hunted with them for about 4 years and hate to shoot my un-suppressed rifles.
You will not be disappointed and will notice a huge difference in game's reaction if they are already a calm herd. If they are spooky then all bets are off.

Perry

Another consideration in sound suppression is type of rifle. Any semi-auto will have noise in the gas system that a bolt gun will not.

Perry

quote:

You've assumed too much if you think I would use a .22LR on deer.

Same here. Besides in Texas it is illegal. Both using a rimfire on deer as well as shooting a deer with a suppressed firearm.

quote:

A 1 1/2 pound can doesn't seem that heavy until you screw it on a 20"-24" barrel and give it some leverage.

Agreed. That's why my .300 whisper has a 16 inch barrel.

quote:

Why is it important for big game not to hear you shoot?

It's not really. I use mine a lot shooting hogs. There are times when things work out where I can kill the whole bunch where I don't think it would have happened without a suppressed rifle. They do hear the bullet slap when it hits their buddy and run off. But they come right back.

quote:

Originally posted by Jagter:
Advertisement in SA's Magnum magazine reads:
'How to keep your game tame'.

Has any of you guys had any experience with the use of sound suppressors on your rifles?

Does it keep the game more undisturbed at the dampened sound after the shot was taken?
Or is it a myth?

Claims are also made that these gadgets reduce recoil as well.
True or false?

Yes, I have 8 of them. Ranging from .22 to .458"
I have shot several game with it, and YES, the other animals seems not to understand where the danger is. They are confused.
Recoil is nearer the half. Rather a bit long push. Accuracy is often improved.
Here in Norway these thing are very common things on rifles now, and we have 4-5 really good guys, making their living on these things now.

www.a-tec.no

A little facts about supressors/moderators
You can get moderators designed for medium calibers (243 -9.3x62) wheighing 10-15oz, total length 6"-8" added length to the firearm 4" - 6"
Reducing the noize mesured at the shooters ear, from 165db, down to 125db-135db, depending on length( this is a reduction of 30db-40db
High quality earmufs reduces the noize from 25db-32db
The recoile is often reduced by apx 50%
The muzzleflare is illiminatde.
Accuracy on mediocre rifles is often improoved(reduced barrelvibrations)
The supersonic crack is of mutch higher frequence as the powderblast of a unsurpressed shot, ant therefor mutch easier to stop.(1 single layer of glas can block the supersonic crack)
The supersonic crack only mooves to the sides anf forward along the bullets flightpath. It does prackticaly not moowe backwards, as the impulse from the bullet traveling supersonic is of verry short periode, before the bullet is way gone3/1000sek, before the bullet is 3meter gone.(if the shooter hears the supersonic crack, it is often reflection/ecco)
It is verry dificult to determin the direction of a supressed shot, as the highest sound comes from a mooving posisition(the bullet)