Hello,

Thanks to all for responding to my previous post. I have researched other threads on the 3rd locking lug and would ask if someone can explain it to me; given the quality of an action made today by a quality firm, first, what role does the 3rd lug play and, second, is it necessary gievn the quality of today's actions?

Thanks,

Jeff

The third lug is a safety consideration in the very rare event of both front lugs letting go. Is it necessary in this day of really strong steels? Probably not but my own thoughts on the subject is I'd rather have it than not.

Bud W

One point I would like to stress: Look at how the bolt handle and receiver on a 98 Mauser interact, now look at say a Remington 700. ON the Remington you will notice that the bolt handle kind of locks into the receiver when the bolt handle is down...Wouldn't this provide something similar to the third lug on the Mauser?

On the M1903 Springfields and the M98 Mauser, the third lug should not bear, it is just a safety lug in case the front lugs give up. As far as the Remington M700, I wouldn't count on it very much, a lot of them have fallen off. On other actions like the M1917 Enfield, the handle does act like a safety lug, but it is machined as part of the bolt. Bill

Remington bolt handles are silver brazed on. It would help a bit, but not as much as an integral handle. A few Remington handles have even been know to come off in the shooters hand from lack of quality control.

I only suggested the Remington as an example. I personally do not like the 700, although I do own one but it came with my wife I was only drwing a conclusion that a "safety lug feature" might be present if not an actual lug.

The bolt-handle safety lug of the Rem 700 is an inferior descendant of that on the M1917 Enfield which originated in the P13 Enfield. Mauser used the technique rather timidly in the M95 but went to the bolt-body lug in the M98.

Bud W

Well, I personally wouldn't say that the steels or manufacturing today is particularly better than some of the old ones, therefore for me it wouldn't be a consideration in the safety.

How often does the 3rd lug matter? Probably damn few times. Those times it mattered.....it probably mattered more than a little. Is it necessary, no, but not a bad feature to have.

Remember that the original design was for a battlefield weapon, one that could encounter all kinds of things. at a firing range with normal loads you probably would never have a case head seperation, let alone shearing off the lugs. BUT get a bit of dirt in the chamber, mud in the raceways, who knows what that happens in real world conditions. Ol' Pete was just playing it extra safe.

Red

there's a thread on the board from some time ago- a '98 that let go and what stopped the bolt from punching the shooter in the face was the receiver bowing and pinching the bolt; I don't recall the the third lug being of any help in the situation discussed in that thread. MIW*

*I'm introducing a new acronym- "maybe I'm wrong"= MIW

Safety lugs far preceded the M98.
Look at any Mannlicher design.
The guide rib and bolt handle formed a safety lug on the M92 and M95 turn bolt Mannlicher, the Carcano and the German 88 Commission rifle.
Then there is the Lee-Enfield that never needed one.
And the Krag that should have used 2 safety lugs instead of one.
Then there are all those bolted lever guns that John Browning designed. No safety lugs deemed necessary.
The ugly French Lebel and its double ugly twin the Berthier. How about the Kropatschek, the Dreyse, the Dutch Beaumont, Mosin-Nagant.
All bolt guns. No safety lugs specifically needed. And I forgot the Gras.

quote:

... Mosin-Nagant.
All bolt guns. No safety lugs specifically needed.

That great big square section of the bolt rests on the right side of the receive when a Mosin-Nagant is in battery doesn't count for a safety lug? It sure looks awfully solid to me.

It may function as a safety lug on the MN but the receiver does not have a difficult added machining operation added just for a safety lug.
The MN bolt body does not have an added feature just to create a safety lug.
The other designs I metioned were either deemed safe without a safety lug or the safety feature was integral to the design and was not scabbed on with extra cost as an after thought.

I found two photos of a Swede 96 mauser bolt with both lugs torn off the bolt body. I bet that the shooter sure would have wanter a third lug when he fired that round. Broken bolt lugs side view lug failure

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Burgie:
I found two photos of a Swede 96 mauser bolt with both lugs torn off the bolt body. I bet that the shooter sure would have wanter a third lug when he fired that round. Broken bolt lugs

Any idea of what happened when it failed?
I have seen other photos of locking lug failures with M96 Swedes and FN 98 commercial bolts due to defective material or heat treat.
I have also seen M700 Remington and M70 bolt with locking lugs sheared due to over loads that blew off the top of the receiver ring.

I have never heard a report of the bolt of an M96 or earlier Mauser bolt hurting anyone.
I would be much more afraid of a gas leak since they occur much more frequently than locking lug
breakage.

A lot more people get killed driving to and from the range than from a bolt with only 2 lugs going through their head. Just something to think about to help keep it in perspective.

I use the heavy bolt handle base on my
Ruger77 and a bunch of Enfields for more than
safety lugs, I set them up so they are bearing
the same as front lugs. Makes more strength for
hairy wildcats. In the Ruger I shot a 150k
plus psi load by accident and it stayed put.
Bulged chamber, extruded brass back so that brass was shoved a 1/4 inch into the ejector
hole. Took out barrel with lathe,then
I could open bolt, had action/lugs checked, rebarreled and shooting it today.Ed
My 458HE.

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:
I have never heard a report of the bolt of an M96 or earlier Mauser bolt hurting anyone.
I would be much more afraid of a gas leak since they occur much more frequently than locking lug
breakage.

My outfitter in NZ was telling me stories about the early days of reloading. Someone actually had blown up a "Maooser" and the bolkt blew back and tore up his right cheak. Nothing is %100.

quote:

Nothing is %100.

Except that airplanes always come back down.