Why do Germans and Austrians mount some scopes like this?



If I mounted my scope that far back, I'd have no eyebrow left? Most of my hunting shots are done from prone or sitting, using a sling for support as much as possible. Shooting like that tends to drive the head forward compared to shooting from a bench.

I prefer to have my head erect-so high mounts and scopes to the rear are ok. For whatever reason, most Americans crawl the stock very badly. When I started doing a lot of offhand shooting, I found I did better with an erect posture. The mount shown above looks just fine to me.

The same goes for me. I used to crawl the stock but now I find it better to move the scope further back. I still like to mount my scopes as low as possible though.

So they don't have to bend the bolt and alter the safety,.

HP, I think most people position their head on the stock to get a good sight picture, determined a lot by the eye relief of a given scope etc. If like Marc says that results in 'crawling the stock' I think it is more of a function of the components as opposed to a chosen style.
Having said that, one would obviously have to have his head erect/back on the stock pretty far with that rig.
Regardless, I think that rig looks heinous, and although it may be, it doesn't look like it would be very stable. I can tell you one thing, someone would definitely smash their finger running that bolt til they got used to it--is it hitting the scope already?--pretty close....

I guess that's why they make chocolate and vanilla, If I like chocolate, that thing is definitely vanilla.

Regards-D

What you see in that picture is pretty much the way scopes were originally mounted. As mentioned above, it does not alter the bolt handle, safety, or nice long LOP.

The problem is that this method would cost about $600 today, plus the scope. When scopes became popular in the US, every thing was changed to make it more economical. Both rings were made the same size, which put them on the tube. This meant moving the scope forward, which shortened the LOP.

The other important aspect to consider is shooting style. The military has always been the experts on shooting, and it directly influences civilian hunting.

European technique is based on several hundred years of linear warfare. You face your adversary on line, with your head up and your shoulders back. Very aristocratic.

Americans, on the other hand, quickly adopted the technique of crouching low and shooting from behind cover. Make yourself as little of a target as possible.

KurtC, that is interesting. How did the front half-ring hold the scope, was it glued in? Did scopes of that genre have longer eye relief than is common today?
I think the american way must be OK, a lot of big game hunters aren't so concerned with being aristocrats.

Regards-d.

My hunting positions very closely mirror my target shooting positions, with the few changes necessary to make them field-worthy. I also use a military sling (US M1) on my hunting rifles and I use it as both a carrying and a shooting aid.

Those shooting positions (kneeling, sitting, and prone with a sling) do not allow the head to remain far back as people are used to shooting from a bench. A scope mounted the old Euro way would be unusable about 95% of the time for me.

Early scope rings were soldered on. Keep in mind that scopes were not considered precision instruments until the 1950's. Prior to that they were not nitrogen filled, and most mounting systems required that the scope be partially or even fully disassembled.

European hunting (and firearms in general) was not for the common man, it was reserved as a sport for nobility. I believe their shooting style reflects this heritage.

I personally find this shooting style to be very comfortable and stable. It also absorbs recoil well, as the body is in a more natural position.

However, in this post 9/11 world is is comforting to know that I can still curl up inside a helmet and shoot from the prone.

In addition to the preceding comments, in Germany when scopes first came into use, they were regarded as auxiliary sights, not the primary sighting system. Consequently, they mounted them way the hell up in the air, in order to permit use of the irons under them. Now, I note that this picture shows a very tall rear sight, so I assume here they were trying to build both an iron sight and scope sight arrangement that has pretty much the same sighting plane, so the stock could be made in such a way that you don't have to move your face way up off the comb to use the scope, (unlike many other German/Austrian rifles where you DO).

However, you are right that this scope is way too far to the rear for safe use with a heavy-recoilling cartridge, plus which, it is soldered in place, giving one NO OPTIONS as to eye relief at all. Hopefully, the Kraut who built this clunker custom-fitted the scope for the original owner.

Like HP Shooter, my positions in the field are very akin to those I use shooting targets. In other wortds, head erect to improve balance and thereby accuracy. Look at the position, especially off hand, of good target shooters, and you will see their head erect and against the stock pretty far back; you may even see a pronounced cant to the rifle, for which sight adjustments have to be made, of course. The same holds true for kneeling. Sitting and prone tend to locate the head farthere forward, but I seldom use either of those in the field.
When using a rest, theposition of thehead and hencethe eye can be just about anywhere. Stock crawling, when shooting from the bench, doesn't hurt acurate shooting, but in other positions, it does.
My scopes are so far back, that when friends shoot my guns, they have to be warned to allow eye relief.

Guys, that is informative stuff. Now I guess I have to see if I need to change my shooting position. I've got a bunch of rifles that shoot under an inch at a 100 yards, so this is probably a good way to screw that up!

It is always interesting to learn some new info about shooting and shooting gear.

Nice thread HP

Actually the reason this scope is mounted in this manner is because it is a claw mount. The front ring has to be positioned at the very front of the scope because the scope is released by tilting it up and forward, if the scope was mounted at the body the front bell would contact the barrel.Sometimes the front bell extends well forward of the reciever ring and the front base is on the barrel itself. This type of mount is among the most solid and repeatable setups going but quite expensive to do.
bigbull