Okay, this is really starting to piss me off. I have a Winchester model 70 XTR featherweight in 257 Roberts. It shoots like crap. 3-4 inch groups at 100 yards off the bench. And its not the shooter, i have been shooting many years and make .5 inch groups with other rifles of mine.

I have tried different powders, bullets, seating lengths, i have cleaned the barrel for hours, used JB bore paste stuff, etc. Everything i try doesn;t seem to make a difference. I got this gun about a year ago at a local hunting store. It looked to be in great shape and didnt look to shot too much. Not a mark anywhere on the gun.

I am begining to wonder if the barrel is shot out or the gun isnt bedded correctly or something. I have tried removing a TINY bit of wood in the barrel channel to release a little upward barrel tension, didnt help. I have tried putting a buisness card under the barrel to add a little barrel tension, didnt help.

One thing that i am not sure i like is when the action is removed or put back in the stock, in the area at the front of the reciever the stock sort of pinches the reciever. Once you get past center the action sort of "snaps" into the stock. I am not sure this is correct and i like this. NEver had a rifle like this before.

Wondering now if i need a gunsmith to look at it. Action Job? Bedding Job? BArrel JoB?
Anybody have any ideas?

I really hate to give up on this rifle. I love the caliber and love the handleing of this little gun. Kinda hoping someday to take a sheep with it. HELP!!!!

Thanks guys

What do the groups look like? Have you tried another scope on the rifle? If that XTR has iron sights you can even try them.

After firing look at the crown and see if the gas fouling has an even pattern. If the barrel is clean right now look at the crown with magnification.

Tighten the front guard screw first then the rear and leave the middle one just tight enough to hold the trigger guard. Fire just two three shot groups like this. If it does not respond loosen the rear guard screw also and now shoot it again. If it shoots now get back to me on a easy way to finish the bedding. When you tighten the rear screw does the barrel move in the stock?

There are plenty of rifles out there and the XTR is not all that special. If some more fooling around does not get it to shoot well take it for a walk down gunshow lane as Ray says.

I never take guns like that to a "gunsmith". You can do it yourself.

Do you have the link for adjusting the trigger? It's not on this puter. If not I will try to search for it for you.

I've got a featherweight in 22-250 and have learned that the trick to mine was the bore needed some fouling. This gun will shoot 2-3 inch groups until about 20-25 rounds have been shot. Then it'll start to shoot inch groups. Don't know about your rifle, but you might try it.

Most guns either shoot or they don't, and you have to decide if it is worth the expense of glass bedding and hope that is the fix...You can almost spend enough money fixing one as you can just selling it and buying one that shoots. It has to be your call.

I have an xtr fwt .270 and its a 1.5" rifle after bedding, floating, fussing, etc., for what that's worth. As an aside, there used to be a place (Kleingunther's?) that advertised in all the gun mags. that claimed they could make any factory rifle shoot. Their one caveat was that they would not accept anything chambered for the .257 Roberts! I have no experience with the cartridge so can offer no real input. Anyone else know anything about this, or why?
C.G.B.

I fought with a W70 FWT for years and, despite some great help from folks here on the board, was unable to make it shoot anywhere near acceptably. It's now been sold off (the shop knew its history.) I've had trouble with several late model W70's accuracy wise but still buy them for the actions. You may just have to re-stock and re-barrel and call whatever you end up with your "custom" rig.

Savage99,
The gun has had three scopes on it. It has an awesome trigger, one of the best i have had in years.

This gun is really a challenge.

sharp shooter---

Without more information all you're going to get is (bad) guesses.

Lets try an analogy---

You take your car to the mechanic and say, "It doesn't run right..... and I've changed the oil three times and tried four kinds of gas and bought new tires and even washed and WAXED it.......and it STILL runs bad. What's wrong?"

The mechanic is going to ask, "HOW is it running bad? What are the signs it's not running good. What are the symtoms?"

It's common to ALL things.....to figure out what's wrong there has to be questions answered and a diagnosis made of how it's failing and THEN how to correct it.

GOOD rifles shoot ALL loads pretty well and some very well. BAD rifles will occasionally shoot well by accident but not consistantly.

Tell us HOW it shoots badly and maybe you'll get something besides guesses.

What do the groups look like? Are they horizontal, vertical, two groups or scattered?

What does the crown look like? Is there a chip gone or some damage?

Does the barrel move in the stock channel when you tighten the rear screw?

This is the second time I have asked these questions.

Also when the front and rear stock screws are tight and you push on the barrel sideways near the forend tip is there a click?

Does your Winchester (like my Ruger) have a long throat? If the rifle is throated for the so-called 3" Roberts, seating bullets to standard length as stated in the loading manuals is going be a real handicap.
How many bullet brands have you tried? My Roberts likes 75gr Sierra HP's, 100gr Noslers, and 120gr Speer bullets. Any other brand of similar weight shoots poorly. Some barrels are fussy, some aren't.
Lightweight barrels often like a bunch of fore end pressure. A simple shim to add pressure is a petal from a shotgun wad. I watched the president of my gun club add as many as six of those petals to a custom lightweight varmint rifle that wouldn't shoot.

I currently number 8 featherweights in my safe, and shoot them regularly. They (the ones I have kept) all shoot quite well. I have had two that wouldn't shoot no matter what I tried. As stated above, sometimes it just makes better sense to move on instead of trying to polish a turd forever. (Even a beautiful featherwieght turd.) One of the most accurate rifles I have is a featherweight in .257 Roberts. Consistent, 5 shot group between 1/2 and 3/4" at 100 yards. That is about as good as I am capable of with any gun.

Interestingly, in talking with the factory a couple years ago about a different rifle, the shop mentioned that they have had a history of trouble getting .257's to shoot well. They described my expereince with the .257 as one of the "lucky ones". I take lucky any time I can get it, but you should realize that it can be rare.

Good Luck, but consider selling that one and buying another featherweight in .257. There ARE some good ones out there.

Bill

I have a XTR FWT 257 roberts that shoots wonderfully. It also "snaps" when inserting the action in the stock. It is a factory original with no work done to it except for me adjusting the trigger. The throat matches well with the 2.8" cartridge length. This gun loves the 120 speer flatbase with 43 gr of IMR 4350 for a little over 2800 fps. It is a gun worthy of working with to make it a shooter. Good luck and keep us posted.

bama7x57

First of all I have no use for the .257 Remington Roberts but in my experiance they shoot as well as other similar cartridges which is very good.

Things just need to be made right and assembled correctly and that's all there is to it.

I have seen long throated rifles shoot well with short loaded ammunition also.

"A bad barrel is forever"

Sorry Savage99, i guess i didnt understand your question the first time. The groups are symetrical. Doesnt seem to throw shots to one sideor the other. one left, then right then high. I have looked at the crown with a magnifying glass and dont see anything obviously a miss with the crown. No obvious chips or anything.

I have tried adding upward barrel tension using buisness cards and it just appears to make the groups get worse.

i havent tried the screw tightening test yet. Will inform you all after i try it.

i have tried 100 and 117 grain sierras, 100 grain barnes and hornady. None of these seem to help groups. I will try the Speer bullets. Maybe the gun would shoot better with the smaller bullets but i dont really want a varmint rifle, trying to make it into a deer/antelope/sheep rig.

Boy i wish i could get the .5-.75" groups. I would jump for joy.

Should i try floating the barrel? maybe put some shims under the action to "jack it up a bit"...

thanks guys
sorry for the confusion savage99

I've owned four of them and the best any would shoot was 2" at 100 yards. With that pencil thin barrel, I'm afraid that is all you can expect.

Why isn't everyone screaming to write to the Winchester CEO and tell him how lousy his stuff is, and that they'll never buy another one??

Oh, that's right. We only do that when a Remington has a problem...

Sharp-shooter, I have one that has shot 1 1/2 inch groups since day one. If it shoots that badly, I doubt if any of the fixes you mentioned will help. The .257 Roberts is an excellent round, those who use it will tell you how well it works. There were some topics here or on HA about it recently and the users raved about it. Those who denegrated it either did not used it or reacted to rumors and misinformation. If you bought it new I would send it back. They will do something about it.

Remington on the other hand will not do anything with their POS if it is killing someone so at least you have a company that will stand behind their stuff, rather than hide behind their name.

Yep, took *one* post to get them going...

So, how "BAD" does it shoot. I built a 257 on a model 70 action for a client, nice English Walnut stock with all the trimmings and he took posession of it. Called me about a year later and complained he could not get it to shoot very good so I told him to bring it on over and I would look at it. Well when he came over he showed me a bunch of pictures he had just taken over in Africa. I asked if he had taken the 257 over with him an he replied in the affirmative, and "I killed 18 animals with it." So I said, "how does it shoot?" and got the previous answer. Well, I worked up a load and got it to shoot for me into 3/4" but I'll be damned if I remember the load.

Sharpshooter,

It's usually the bedding but who knows? After you try the screws as I suggested get back to us.

I hesitate to bring up loads as you have tried Sierra's and another good bullet. I don't think the Speers will shoot any better but they are good bullets too. I would try a load with a full length sized cases. Also don't seat the bullet near the lands for this load but instead seat them deeper. There are suggested accuracy loads in the Sierra and Nosler manuals. You could also call Sierra's 800 number for advice.

If you have any other M 70 SA's you might switch stocks for a test.

The Featherweight XTR is not a short action.

I have two Featherweights; one in 308 and the other in 6.5x55. The .308 came with forend tip pressure and I opened up the channel and bedded the action (late 80's push feed type). The thin forend move around too much so I full length bedded the barrel. This rifle shoots 3 shots in about an inch. The newer Featherweight model in 6.5 Swede came from the factory with a free floated barrel. Right out of the box it shoots 1.5" groups which is fine for its intended use as a woods rifle and I've left it alone.

I would try bedding the action and free floating the barrel. If that doesn't work for you then full lenght bed the barrel with no tip pressure. If that doesn't work add varying amounts of tip pressure. If still no improvement, cut the barrel back a 1/2" and recrown. Take this as a challenge. You can do lots without spending a lot of money. Barrels are known to have tight and loose spots. If a loose spot is at the muzzle, accuracy will suffer. This is why cutting barrels back and re-crowning is sometimes effective. You can cut the barrel back to a tigher spot. Good luck.

I have a 6mm/.284 which, when I first got it, shot only mediocre groups. I thought it should have been able to shoot much better than it was doing. Took it to a gunsmith, who cut an inch off the muzzle and recrowned it properly. It immediately started to shoot groups about 1/4th the size of previous ones. After working up a good load, this rifle was now capable of shooting five shots into one ragged hole at 100 yards, and do so consistently. It still does. All it needed was a good crown!!

[ 04-29-2003, 17:46: Message edited by: eldeguello ]

Okay here is the latest on my featherweight. I took the gun apart and started checking parts. Looked at the barrel crown and it seems to be okay. Granted i am only looking at it with a simple magnifying glass but it appears okay. I guess a "Recrown" job couldnt hurt anyways!

Put the whole thing back together and it seated into the stock with the usual "snapping" at the front reciever ring. Installed the front and middle screws. Front was put fairly tight and the middle just snug. Then the rear screw was put in and i played with the amount of tension on the screw while i felt the barrel and stock with my other hand. I cannot feel any movement at all between the barrel and stock while playing with the back screw. To me this says that i have fairly good bedding contact between the action and the wood.

Friend of mine recommended this for another try. He recommended making to "shims" out of some pretty stiff cardboard, (something like the back of a spiral notebook) and place them under the action (between action and wood) to "jack up the action" and float the barrel. He recommend putting some rounds down range this way and see if it makes any difference. If that helps maybe a bedding job is in order? Any thoughts on this method?

Still hunting for ideas...

Sharpshooter,

Leave the middle screw loose. Just enough to hold the guard only. See www.snipercountry.com/Articles/AdjustingWinTrigger.htm

Shimming it up is an easy experiment so go ahead I usually try it myself but so far I don't recall a lot of success. It's a good idea however.

Check also that the magazine box is not too long and the guard screws are tightening against that. Also that the any of the guard screws are not bottoming out in the action. Some of the 70's have a blind hole in the tang and maybe the others are not threaded all of the way?

Does the barrel move or "click" when you push sideways on it at the forend?

Put some ink on the bolt lugs to see if they are both contacting.