Not long ago I posted about problems I've been having getting my .300 WM Ruger to shoot acceptably. This is the original thread for the M77 Accuracy problem. As suggested I fastened the screws to the correct specs and the consistency improved a little - but it was not drastic. I also switched out the old Leupold with a known good "new" scope and things have started to look better in the last two trips to the range. I've yet to take this gun to a smith, as I have just tried to see what I can do with a bit of patience and tinkering.



The rifle is shooting more consistent, in that it will shoot consistent groups with the same ammo. Still not quite what I was hoping for in terms of pure accuracy, but nevertheless, an improvement. My groups are now consistently having the first 2 shot close together, in may cases touching, with the 3rd shot being between 1.25" and 2" low and sometimes slightly to the left or right of the group. I am shooting from a very solid rest and don't believe my shooting is to blame. I can let the rifle cool down for 30 minutes and fire another 3 shot group and it will do the same thing again. Now - here is my question: is that a symptom of bedding problems, or something else?



Here are a couple of different groups I fired with 2 bullet weights.

Buzz,

I don't have the answer, but here're my observations one of my Rugers: it shoots two distinct groups with most ammo. Even with my best load that shoots sub 3/4" groups, it has two separate, tight clusters. Unfortunately, I haven't found factory ammo that'll group under 2.5". I need to change the scope to make sure that's not the problem, but I guess I'd ask you what happens to shots 4, 5, and 6 in your gun? Do they go into two groups by any chance? I think I remember that my shots alternated each shot, but maybe not.

Let me know if you find the answer.

Steve

Hi Buzz, For what it's worth, I have been working with a Ruger 1B in .270 and the groups you are getting are identical to what I am experiencing. It has been most frustrating, but due to the help recieved on the forum and lots of shooting I am coming to understand the rifle. Letting it cool completely is the answer to tighter groups. My first round froma cold clean bore will strike with in 1/4 inch of desired zero, then te shift down and right! If I continue to heat the tube, i.e., rounds 4 or 5 go most anywhere. Clean and cool and it's back to zero. I think the tube has more stress than me! The one thing that is for sure is that it's not a great barrel. Glad it belongs to my brother in law! Good luck, and let it cool completely between shots.

I did not read all the posts, but I'll give you some ideas. If you go to web page you'll see I've had some really fine luck with Ruger 77's.

First and foremost is a clean, broken in barrel. No rifle will settle into it's own until it's had a proper break in.

Second, trigger, they usually need work.

Third, bedding, you'll get all kinds of opinions, but except for one, all of mine have shot best with the barrel floated, and the action and first 2" of the barrel bedded, along with the tang bedded. It is possible that a pressure point would be the answer, but I would float it first and then if that doesn't solve the problem, then you can add card stock under the forend to experiment. If that works, then glass bed a pad in the forend.

Fourth, stock screws, tighten the front one first, and very tight, then tighten the rear screw fairly tight, and lastly, tighten the middle screw just a tad more than finger tight. Just tight enough so it won't vibrate loose when shooting.

Fifth is make sure the scope and everything is tight, also make sure your scope is reliable.

If after all this the gun still won't shoot, my guess is one of a couple of things is wrong. It could be a barrel that's not any good dimensionally or one that is not properly stress relieved. I've had guns that shot like yours and if it was not bedding, then it was not within my capabilities to make it shoot, so they got traded.

One other thing to try when your all done, is to shoot a three shot group waiting at least 10 minutes between shots to see if heat is a problem.

Buzz,

As Bobby says the best way to have it bedded is the action and tang bedded and the chamber area of the barrel. Another thing I found is with my Ruger if I match up cases as to weight it helps my groups. I was using cases that I just pulled out of the package and I was getting a flyer once in awhile but not as bad as yours. When I started weighing my cases the flyers went away. I keep my cases trimmed to the same length, uniform the primer pockets and deburr the flash holes as well as matching them as to weight.

I think if you're consistently getting two touching, your problem has to do with the barrel heating up. I'd free float the barrel, but in a hunting situation, your rifle will work well. You don't have a rifle that's spraying bullets around, it looks like the light barrel is heating up and is warping under stress.

Buzz, if you've followed all the advice on this and the previous thread, (and you haven't used a torque wrench on the action screws ) I'd lay odds that the barrel needs to be floated, and the action bedded.



My 270 shot groups exactly like yours before I did the above. Now, I get groups that are sub MOA reliably - tried to post them, but I keep getting a 'time out thingy...



pm me if you want and I can email them to you - they're only about 10K each..



Hang in there, it's worth it!!

The ONLY Ruger I've ever had an accuracy problem with was a Mini-30, which got traded. My one M77, in 7X57mm, shoots well. So do my No. 1's: a 1A in 7X57mm, a 1B 7mm Rem. Mag., a 1H .45/70, and a 1H .375 H&H, as well as my No. 3 in .30/40 Krag. I once had a 1V .25.'06, but never could get it to do much better than 1 MOA. But it did not shoot two distinct groups. I guess the 1A does shoot distinct groups, but they are very close together, usually under an inch apart.



7X57mm M 77





7X57mm No. 1A





.30/40 Krag No. 3





No. 1B 7mm Rem Mag. (200 yards)





Needless to say, I like Rugers!!

What happens if you let the barrel cool down completely and then fire 2 more ? Will they go right in with the first 2 shots ?

Or fire single shots and wait 30 minutes or so in between for cooldown and see if they all bunch together like your first 2 do . If so , I'd say you've got a barrel capable of very good hunting accuracry , you just need to get the bedding and such tweaked a bit.........

I have not been able to let the barrel completely cool down between groups. I will have to go one day when I have a lot of time to kill to see what it's capable of. The best groups the rifle has ever fired though have been when there was about 10m between shots.

I have let it sit for about 30 minutes and fired another group and the first 2 shots were touching (within about 1/2" of the 1st groups 2 shot cluster) - so that may answer the question.

I am currently checking around on smiths that will bed it, check the crown, and do a little bit of action work for me (for reasons other than accuracy).

Greg Tannel does Ruger work (he hunts with one too - thats what he told me and I have no reason to call him a liar) He si an accuracy minded guy who has developed some very well respected procedures for accuracy work.

Buzz,

We met at the HA long range shoot a couple of years ago, I remember your bench technique and small groups at 300 yards. Anyway I'd say take a look at Roger Farrel over in Fayetteville, he does good work, he's building a gun based on the Montana 1999 action for me. He prefers to full length bed hunting guns but will float barrels for target rifles or at the customers request. His stock and metal work are well above average with reasonable prices. I don't have his number handy but he runs ads in Rifle magazine under Roger's Gunworks or something similar.

I'll cast my vote on your problem child as one of two things- bedding or a stress filled barrell in need of relief or replacement.