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I certainly agree that the M16 doesn't count. That is why I said so. And I certainly would not call the one I had reliable in any sense of the word. The game was just more dangerous.  Larry "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson | |||
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Well, to dissect a tradgedy a little further why was there not already a round in battery under the circumstances? The correct question should be "shoot your rifle and pull the bolt back part way and close it again". If we take the problem to its ultimate end all rifles should be combat configured with bayonets. The real answer is practice, practice and more practice with the gear you plan to take into the field. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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This is getting pretty amusing. A guy starts a thread asking for advice on a barrel for his Remington 700 project...and now it has turned into a discussion about Alaskan Guides, Grizzies, and the reliability of M16’s!  | |||
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Actually, the accounts I read described him short-stroking the ejection. You're going to be in trouble regardless of the action design. You won't have a live round under the pin. GV | |||
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Hvy, I built my .338-06 with a 23", #3 Shilen on a Mauser action and LOVE it. If you handload, and WANT it that way, by all means go with the AI. I'm not sure that you will gain that much, but, what the hell, it's YOUR rifle! I see absolutely nothing wrong with your project. I might recommend a 22-23 inch barrel as better handling in the woods (and plenty of barrel for a .338-06 AI or plain), but if you want a 26er, hell, build it that way. And, like Allen said, all of those barrel manufacturers have oodles of experience and rep in building fine barrels. This thread is reading like two third graders arguing over which bicycle is faster -- the red one or the blue one. Damn, Savage99, take a powder! MKane160 You can always make more money, you can never make more time...........LLYWD. Have you signed your donor card yet? | |||
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GV, As I recall the article the chamber was jammed with two cartridges. So it does matter if they are jammed or not. That's where a PF would fail and jam them tight and a CRF would rechamber an empty shell. The jam is worse. Thats the exact problem that the guide had. He was trying to clear the jam from his PF Sako as the bear was chewing on his feet. He could not clear the jam with his fingers. There was time at this point to work the bolt but as the bear moved up his leg to bite his thigh he drew a line there due to the femoral artery. So he defended his artery with his hands and then the bear ate his hands. Do you need more details? Join the NRA | |||
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MKane, Au contraire. Many topics take a diversion from the orginal topic. This discussion of CRF vrs PF in a .338 rifle is relevant. Now if you don't like the diversion take a powder yourself. You can discuss CRF with us or if a 338 is a possible DGR or some other tangent discussion but to tell me to take a powder is not the way we learn. Perhaps you will learn that. Join the NRA | |||
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"CRF - if it doesn't eject the fired round and shoves it back in the chamber, the extractor will not ride over the rim to extract the spent case. In fact, it jammed it so hard into the chamber that I had to use my cleaning rod to get it out." ============================================== There are so called CRF's that don't function right so I an not there to see your gun. However if the empty is not ejected then a proper CRF may rechamber it while holding onto the rim. Of course it's possible that your shell will eject but fell back into the action and was pushed forward by the front on a non beveled extractor. The thing to do then is to depress the side of your extractor and it will open and go over the cartridge's rim. Join the NRA | |||
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There are several accounts of the incident still available on the Internet.......including the one with the picture you posted. None of them mention the "two cartridge" scenario. I imagine the empty .416 case tipped out of the action and got smashed sideways in the "short stroke" as he attempted to ram the bolt closed. While your point that a proper CRF action would have retained the empty case on the bolt in a "short stroke".......requiring only to rework the bolt at full stroke to eject the old and chamber a new round is correct.......the mistake was still made on the short-stroke. Not to mention at least two other mistakes made prior to the incident that the poor chap freely admitted to. I'm not sure this incident is sufficient reason for hvy barrel to abandon his 338-06 Remington 700 project. Do you? GV | |||
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GV, If there is more than one account of the incident so be it. The discusion has really been about what could happen and both a sideways jam and a two cartridge jam are possible. I thank you for keeping this CRF discussion relevant. As to the specific project of course a push feed 338/06 would work. Heck people go into the woods with no guns at all. I just thought that it would be nice to divert the dear funds and resources to a project that would be optimum. For sure I would like to have a Hart barrel on any rifle. A Remington with a Hart could make an excellent varmint rifle for sure or a target rifle. This could lead to many interesting uses. Having premium barrels, Remingtons and improved cartridges I have been there and done that. I am just talking guns and love it. Join the NRA | |||
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Hey, guys! Just thought I’d help you out and so I opened a new thread where the topic will be: “CRF vs PFâ€...which is better? I can imagine that scrolling through all these pages was getting a bit tiring!  | |||
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Perhaps the most important point I was attempting to make is that chambering suggestions were never asked for and some people actually already know they like and prefer the 338-06 over a 338 WM, in spite of internet ramblings such as these whether that makes sense to YOU or not. I respect the fact that you prefer the 338 WM, why cant guys like you just return the favor? | |||
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Wstrnhntr, If your addressing the above comment to me on my observations of the practicality of a 338/06 AI vrs a downloaded then 338 WM I will say that we have free speach here and I was just musing on a practical solution. I see my comments as made in good faith and with good humor. I suggest that you do whatever you want about it. But to waste time complaining about others making suggestions is just that, a waste of all of our time. Now if you wish to argue the practicality of a 338/06 AI vrs a standard 338 WM then go ahead. Such suggestions are at least gun talk. Join the NRA | |||
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Why is it not practical for an individual to prefer what everyone but you seems to KNOW is the one that gives up very little in terms of velocity but kicks substantially less? That seems very practical to me. Apparently trying to reason with you is a waste of my time.  Your numbers on the 338-06 vs the 338 Wm are both doctored and flawed and you blow of recoil as a matter that is "not nessecary" to delve into. Clearly you are not interested in practical disgussion. And by the way, I can complain about your hijacking someone else's thread to impose your personal prejudices if I wish, Its a free speach thing you know.. | |||
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I have allways taken short stroking (at least taken out of the context of self-abuse) to be not pulling the bolt far enough back to pick up a round before closing it. Also a CRF action is not a CRF unless it is working well. I have 4 09 Argentines and all bar one require extractor work to get true CRF. I reckon we would be amazed by the number of blowhards shooting a CRF that is actualy working as a push feed! (actualy probably worse, not being designed as a push feed) | |||
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Thanks for the all of the suggestions & information, they have been very helpful. I didn't realize I would be causing such a heated debate. The only thing I have learned from it is that the argument over CRF & PF actions is like the on over Ford or chevy. It all boils down to personal preference. I will keep you all posted as to how my project is going. the ones that are interested anyways. | |||
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