How about a new forum? "Stuff that just doesn't fit in any other forum" Move the feces and child molesters over there. Or perhaps just move it to the political forum, since little offends "politicians".

Dan,

Just think yourself lucky Mike375 is not around!

I certainly hope you don't leave AR over this but if you do, I bet Swamp would look after you!

Seriously, you did what you felt right at the time and even if I don't fully agree, I can appriciate what your motives were...

Regards

Pete

My 2 c?

Deleting the thread was not nearly as offensive as posting it in the first place. JMO, Dutch.

Saeed,

I think you have the answer - create a "Garbage" forum. Don't censor/delete anything, just move the extremely poor taste posts to the garbage?...

Then we need an option to exclude "Garbage" posts from "today's active topics"....

I do appreciate your stand on censorship, and thank you for AR.

Don,

You did what you did and admitted it. I respect you for the latter. One mistake does not necessarily mean failure, hope you stick around.

Regards,

Bill

I'm curious as to the legal implications of accusing someone of a crime (in this case pedophilia) on an internet forum.

If charges of libel are brought, can the owner of the board be charged in addition to the poster,much like a publisher of a newspaper?

Perhaps this is one reason the offending post wa deleted.

In any case I'm a bit tired of adults engaging in name calling. If you have a beef, stick to the facts, but the last thing we need in the current anti-gun atmosphere in this country is for a bunch of supposedly responsible gunowners to be acting like prurient teenagers in public. Only grownups should be allowed to play with guns.

Don should never have been put in the position to make the decision.

Recoil Rob

If the powers at be are worried about being sued, then I gave three other examples where a member was DIRECTLY called a child molester. The thread that was deleted had one post (according to Don and a couple others) that inferred the charge. So, to keep the same standard, wouldn't these posts need to be deleted?

By the way, they are not all in the Political Forum.

LB,
when one finds oneself in a hole, the best approach is to stop digging.

jeffe

Jeff,

I wasn't aware that I was digging any hole. Thank you for pointing that out.

I don't think that any post or thread should be deleted unless the content would give rise to either criminal or civil liability. Some of the posts in the thread about Swamp's employment fell into that category. We cannot expect Saeed and Mr. Greenbaum to be on the receiving end of a lawsuit or even criminal prosecution as a result of someone else's amusement.

Longbob

The two people you mentioned in another thread as being accused of child molestation were "Axel" and "Judy".

As neither of these two actually exist, are probably the same person, and can not be identified, there is no liability issues.

It is different when the person can easily be identified and unsubstantiated claims are made. If it was made as a joke, it should be pretty bloody clear it was a joke. Even then it is extreme poor taste. Those sort of claims resurrect themselves and stick.

I propose a new rule:

If a thread is off-topic (like this one), it gets moved to a more appropriate forum. When there is doubt as to where it belongs, I propose it be moved to 'Miscellaneous Topics'.

Repeat offenders are fed to Saeed's crocodiles.

George

No big deal in my opinnion, it was a worthless thread only fit for the sewing circle experts...thats bannable in my books...lets go back to hunting, shooting, and the important things we can fight over...

I will second that motion to get back to the hunting, shooting, and other gun related topics Ray.

I do want to first recommend that George's idea be considered, think of the great videos that could be circulated of Saeed feeding people to the Crocs! We could even have a new reality show!

:-)

Red

The largest percentage of "one of us" use an AKA, handle or whatever instead of their names.
1. Is keeping us from knowing who is expressing themselves censorship?
2.Can a non identified entity be censored?

I've been around Saeed's site for a while and have seen this site double in size in a few years. There are a lot of good folks here. There are also a few trolls, idiots, and wanna-bees. Saeed has made everyone welcome regardless.

I think Don did the right thing by deleting the post. There is no reason to use Saeed's site to bash on someone from another site. Take it there. If he doesn't want you there, that's his business and it doesn't need to be aired at all, let alone here.

Swamp kicked a bunch of people out during his latest fit. That's his call. Don deleted a stupid post. That's his call. Live with it, deal with it, and stop acting like a bunch of children.

Back to 'smithing.

[ 10-21-2003, 21:12: Message edited by: Big_R ]

My opinion is too much �must be on topic or be moved� attitudes creates more problems then it solves.

I think the Swamp thread is a good example. I put it in this forum simply because the people I know on this board tend to hang out here and the posts Swamp deleted took place on his rifles and gunsmithing board so to me it made sense to put it in the same forum here.

I suspect very few people go to the miscellaneous board here.

You know that threads have titles and if you are not interested simply don�t open it. It really shouldn�t matter that it doesn�t meet your definition of �on topic�.

What is amusing to me is all you �on topic� types are prolonging the life of one of your �off topic� threads by posting on it.

The whole incident is much ado about nothing and easily ignored by all who have a problem with it.

Can this not be shifted to the political forum? I really don't think it belongs here. Nor did the "swamp lost his job" thread. Regards, Bill.

Don't move or delete anything Moving a topic is just as bad as deleting it!

If the subject at hand is not of interest to you, then just don't respond

The thread will die fast and the forum gets back on track.

Terry

I'm with Terry and Ray.
We are here for more interesting things. I don't read the topic but I find of very bad taste offending people through a computer, if you have something to say to someone say it personally or by private mail.

Freedom doesn't mean that you can do whatever you want!!

LG

I am heartened to see the support..thanks guys.

As to deleting the other posts where name calling was done...it has been pointed out above that none were as specific as in this case.

I have also learned in the past day that OTHER posts have been deleted..so I am not the beginning of a new trend. One cannot have anarchy..we all know where that leads. I do not believe what happened was censorship...but that debate I hope is over.

That said, Saeed and I have much too many other things to do than be editors, babysitters, policemen etc. We do NOT intend to read posts to see what should be deleted.

In fact, very shortly this board will go "off the air" and return with a second backup processor installed to handle yet more traffic needs (which I guess I am slightly responsible for in the past 24 hours).

Enjoy the boards, guys, I hope I never have to delete such a posting again.

Over the past years I don't want to think how many hours I have donated to this worthy cause, Saeed and others are very appreciative of this which is why I will continue to do it. The grumblings of a few won't change my devotion.

Don

DGREENBAUM,

Well done sir!

Rusty
We band of brothers!

dgreenbaum deserves a little more slack than some of you are giving him, in my opinion. no disrespect intended to any of the crowd who is crying "censorship," because i agree that it shouldn't be done in 99.9999% of circumstances, but administering one of these things is a lot harder than it looks. most of us do not have the wisdom of solomon, and any decision we make is going to piss off about 40% of the people anyway.

as the administrator of another forum, i can assure you that he hears all kids of crap from both sides, and he is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. one side of an issue will dump on you for doing nothing, and accuse you of taking sides. the other side will dump on your for interjecting even a mild-mannered opinion, and accuse you of taking sides. the toughest thing to do is delete or edit a post, but he obviously felt that it was the right thing to do in this situation.

he made a judgement call, pure and simple. he didn't do it with the intent of supressing any enlightened ideals, and he certainly didn't do it because he knew it would be a popular move. sometimes it is hard to do what you think is the right thing, epecially when you KNOW that you are going to hear about it no matter what you do.

at the same time, censorship of any kind IS a very slippery slope. it leaves members feeling like they are looking over their shoulders every time they sit at the keyboard, wondering if THEIR post is going to be next. this is where self-moderation comes in. if you are about to post something irresponsible, then you shouldn't cry foul IF it is reined-in. if whomever posted that wouldn't have posted it, then we wouldn't be having this discussion, would we? i am NO friend of swamp's, especially after the recent "purge" over at HA, but say someone starts posting that one of YOU is a pedophile.....or worse? considering our sue-happy culture, and the fact that swamp is apparently already crying for a lawyer against another member, what would YOU do? the inmates can't run the asylum ALL the time.....

bottom line, if you don't like what he did, even under these very unusual circumstances, you can ALWAYS go to swamp's site and see how long you last there. his brand of "freedom of speech" is pretty damn lousy for an american; i'll take saeed's idea of freedom of speech any day over THAT. i think that this is a great place, and i congratulate saeed and his "staff" on the job they are doing. it is NOT an easy job, and anyone who thinks it is, should try hosting one of these forums for a while......

Gentlemen, I seem to have forgotten the diameter and depth of the Remington counterbore recess cut. Thanks, RandyB.