Hi all,

I need some advice on a lathe I was hoping to buy. It's an old belt drive 13" South Bend. It has QC gears and after measuring it will fit a 33" barrel between centers. The ways are good and everything is nice and tight. I comes with a quick change 3 jaw chuck, a 4 jaw, dead centers, jacob chuck, tools, holder, steady rest and some other misc odds and ends. It has a 1 hp 120v motor. I tried it and everything worked well. It even cut nice 12 tpi threads for me.

My only concern is that the spindle hole is only a little bigger than 1 inch. I want to be able to chamber, contour and crown barrels.

I'm taking machining courses now so my knowledge is limited. But from what I understand, I should be able to do all the above without having a larger spindle hole.

Can I use this lathe?

Thanks,

Mike

As long as you can fit a 1 inch piece of stock in it, well, thats good enough. My Atlas only has a 13/16 spindle, and it's a PIA.

As long as the price is right, buy it.

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Surely we must all hang together, for separately we will all surely hang.

You can chamber and crown barrels in the steady rest.If you wanted to put them through the spindle you need a way to line up the back end anyway.Using the steady rest you can dial both ends.

Rembo is right, I had a good friend who was a gunsmith for over 40 years and he had a south bend just like that. He did always say he wished he had one with a larger spindle hole and that is why I bought one like that.

If it is a good buy, go for it. You can always get your money out of it.

Chic Worthing

I have the big lathe, wish I had one like you are describing. To my way of thinking a bench top model of the size you described is perfect for the home gunsmith shop. The bigger hole is hard to find in a machine of appropriate size for gun projects. Great big machines, like my 15 x 48 floor model, gear head, tend to leave poor finishes. They also tend not to have the accuracy we are looking for. They are very difficult to move. Getting it into your shop becomes a major undertaking. And what if your drop it? Do you have any experience moving large machine tools?? If you had plans to make reproduction cannon barrels it might be a good choice : ). Besides you are restricted to 220 V at home. To really get the most out of one of the big machines you probably want a 440 V motor. Really lots more than you need to crown a barrel or cut a chamber. It is like using a Mac truck to pick up groceries. Put some bearings on your steady rest and life will be good.

Trade you?? : )))

Before you buy it the best advice I can give you is listen carefully to it and after carefully alligning the tailstock turn a 10 inch piece of bar stock on it and measure how much taper you get. you should get less than .0005 if the machine is in good shape. If the machine turns straight, the gears all work and it doesn't sound like a mix master and its cheap go for it. Be careful of SB headstock bearings as they can have alot of wear and are almost impossible to fix or get replacements for.
Frankly, I don't use a rear spindle spider at all for barreling work, preferring to turn, contour, thread and crown between centers or via a steadyrest. Be aware that if the lathe does not come with a SB taper attachment, you will have a hell of a time finding one that is in workable shape and when you do be prepared to shell out big bucks.
As all machinists will tell you, be very careful of what you buy as a seemingly good deal can wind up as a very expensive very heavy white elephant! Good news on the single phase motor as most are three phase and that causes other problems. good Luck and I hope this helps.-Rob
With that said I have a old 3 1/2 ft bed SB heavy ten that I've had for 25 years and that I still use to make small parts and do some pistol barreling work with.

As a gunsmiths lathe that South bend is a classic and to suggest that it wouldn't be suitable is akin to saying a Model 70 isn't much good for hunting! I really feel that all threading and chambering is best done between centers and in the steady any way. I like to crown in the headstock but doing this in the steady works well too. I recently fiited some barrels on a 50s vintage South Bend machine and it worked very well. Regards, Bill

My advice is to find a lathe with a 1 1/2 inch hole through the head stock. You can put a spider or a collet system on the back end of the headstock spindle & center the work that sticks out the back using a dail indicator. Do not short change yourself with a little light lathe. They can generate hormomic vibrations that can give you lots of problems. The heavier the lathe a more solid platform you have to work to turn out accurate work. Set up the lathe on concrete & get it DEAD level (two axis's) & bolt it down solid. Don't EVER skimp on machine tools, they are a investment of for a life time.

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NRA Life member

My South Bend is 16' and the spindle is to long. From chuck jaws to the other end is about 28". The South Bend is a great classic. I hope you got a good price. I screwed up and didn't buy the one with it that had a five foot bed. The size you have is great. Also,Part of machining is doing without. Look at Robert Snapp's stuff he doesn't have a mill. He uses his lathe's to do his milling. Mark

The South Bend lathe you describe would be ideal for gun work. If you are doing this as a hobby or on a limited basis then working between centers is fine. It is certainly considered the most accurrate method to fit a barrel by some. There are a couple of considerations though. If you are contemplating doing general gunsmithing full time then it is advantageous to work through the headstock for recrowning, rechambering and installing muzzle brakes on barrels that are already blued. Otherwise you will have to make up a lot of clamp type rings to go on the barrel to protect the finish from being marred by the steady rest. This is not to say that doing all the barrel work through the spindle is not good, a lot of well respected bench rest gunsmiths do all their work through the spindle. Like wise a lot of good ones advocate working between centers.

I would not hesitate to buy the lathe you are describing if it is in good condition then it will do very accurate work and it is massive and rigid enough for smooth finishes.

If you are taking classes for machine shop, why not ask your instructor to take a look at the lathe? You might consider visiting a small machine shop and offer to pay someone experienced to take a look. Might be some cheap insurance.

Thanks for all the info and advice.

In addition to the overall good shape of the lathe the fact that it is so well tooled is what also makes this seem like such a good deal. I called the guy again tonight and found out that it doesn't have a taper attachment. I was under the impression that I could contour the barrel by offsetting the tailstock? Is this not an option?

I'm inclined to get it anyway as most of my work for now will consist of more amatuerish endeavours. Like rethreading takeoff barrels fto fit mausers and fitting pre-contoured barrels. Eventually I'd like to turn this into a full time business. By then I should be able to afford another lathe that has both a larger spindle hole and a taper attachment.

One of the nice things about this lathe is how quiet it is. That's one thing I like about the belt driven machines versus the gear heads.

I've been told that South Bend's book "How to run a lathe" is a must have. Any other related reading material I should have?

Thanks,

Mike

Mike, it's very easy to taper a barrel with tailstock offset. I don't do it that way very often for 2 reasons. I use a specially made follow rest when contouring and I don't like having to realign the centers. On my lathe that's difficult. It's just much easier to use a taper attachement for me. You can also just copy another barrel. E-mail me to remind me and I'll send you an illustration of how that's set up. It's pretty easy to do. George

I've posted this before, but try the links at www.metalworking.com , especially the "Links to learning" there is a ton of stuff there, including how to inspect used machinery.

A lathe that turns a taper on a piece hanging out of the chuck(no tailstock or steady rest)may be just out of level.Doesn't mean it won't cut straight if it's levelled properly.My partner just sold a small lathe that I thought would be great for gunsmithing.A 16" x 48".Super heavy bed,1800 rpm top speed,steady rest,decent 3 jaw,a spare 3 jaw,12" four jaw and a quick change toolpost.Spindle bore was about 1-1/2".We have another one a bit bigger we are considering selling.This one is a Spanish machine,about 20"x78"(2 meters).Very solid machine with 1200 rpm.We just don't use these small engine lathes that much(we have a 24" x 100" Mazak for the real work)and need room for another CNC.I have unlimited access to a complete machine shop and I can never find time to do any gunsmith work for myself.Figure that out.Putting in 60+ hours a week on paying jobs will do that.Anyways, it's still in the plans to do some playing around when I can find the time,maybe when the workload abates a bit........and my rec-room/office project completes itself and my 15 year old son learns to look after himself...ahh..aint gonna happen soon.If anyone has general machining questions feel free to email me.I have 24 years experience in machining on everything from 16" lathes to 30" hollow spindles with 12" bores to Kearney & Trecker #3 to #5 mills to a 72" hobbing machine not to mention CNC from 16" chuckers to a 24" x 120" hollow spindle Mazak PowerMaster.Cut truckloads of tooljoints for the oilpatch.

I really like the South Bend lathes.

I have an internal conflict between getting a 9" Bench lathe (13/16" spindle hole?) and making a nice oak cabinet for it so it will fit in my tiny shop and be (relatively) portable...

OR wrestling a Heavy 10 (1 3/8" hole) into the shop for a higher investment (and floor space)which I have trouble justifying since I am an amateur... I'd need quite a bargain which is hard to find...

I think the 13" South Bend also has a 1 3/8" spindle hole which should be good for most gunsmithing uses, right??? The taper attachment can be retrofitted but, as mentioned, expensive- this may be offset by all the other tooling you get with your deal...

DeBee,

This lathe has a screw-on syle spindle and the hole was only 1" or slightly bigger. I've decide to get it since good used lathes for under a $1000 are nigh on impossible to find in my area. All the tools included will certainly help to offset the cost of any other attachments I may need to fabricate. The good news is that the gent selling it will give me the plans to a taper attachment he built for another similar lathe. He said his total investment in parts was only $50 in tool steel. Since he's a freind of a freind he'll be available to help should I need it.

From what I've seen the heavy 10 seems like a good choice but I've yet to see one for under $1900 and that was without tools. I'm in the same boat as you in terms of justifying spending more than what I am at this point.

Like I say, this should last me at least a couple years before I become sophistcated enough to out-grow it. If I feel like I need to upgrade I should have no trouble getting back my investment.

I appreciate everyones help in this matter. Any additional advice would surely be appreciated.

Thanks,

Mike

PS. When it comes to South Bends things can be expensive. A gear from them can cost over a hundred and some change. The head has Babbit bearings, so look in the oiler holes, If they are there.They sould have some clean,light spindle oil in them. My SB, needed a plate, to tell me what my feed was, for the Quick Change gears. $50.00...Holy Cow! So, like the man said afew lines ago.. About it sounding "like a mix master..." Get a friend to look at it, if he is a lathe man.South Bend has a great little book they put out for about $20.00 or dollars. How to run a lathe. Also, there is a lever down by your left leg, if you are in front of the head. It sould be in the up position, when you are not using your lathe.This lever puts tension on the belt when running. Is it Three phase? It probable is... Get a phase converter. Or a friend who can make you one. Check the belt look for wear. The Amish are good at making a new belt and lacing it up in the correct pattern. That book really is a good buy. Knowledge is priceless... Mark

[This message has been edited by Sparticus (edited 02-09-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Sparticus (edited 02-09-2002).]

I have a Delta/Rockwell 10". It only has a 7/8" headstock hole. (I have been told I can bore it out larger) It is just long enough to chuck a Chevy 350 crankshaft for polishing. I have owned it for 20 years and have done many a barrel on it. I have to set the tailstock over to do tapers from a live center and drive dog.

Brownell's used to offer a good book "the amateur's lathe" , get a copy. It has all of the basics and a ton of shortcuts for turning.

The most difficult aspect for most newbys is sharpening the tooling. Weird, Huh? OG

I'm really glad this topic was posted. I've learned alot just from reading the replies. I'm thinking about the same questions on lathes and trying to figure out if I could justify spending money to do my own hobby work plus small farm type jobs.
The South Bend book is good. Answered a few questions I had. Also, The Complete Illustrated Guide to Rifle Barrel Fitting from Brownells has also been a good source of info and the drawings are made showing South Bend lathe equipment. If anyone else has suggestions on reading material that might help us novices who can't drop everything and go to proper classes, please post it.

Rick