I'm removing the rollover cheek piece from a Zastava Mauser stock. I've decided that I want to clean up the checkering so I'm going to buy some basic checkering tools.

By eye, I counted 8 lines over half an inch of checkering. Would Zastava have checkered it at 16 LPI?


Thanks for any help.

You're on the right track. Count the number of lines at the widest point and do the math.

quote:

By eye, I counted 8 lines over half an inch of checkering. Would Zastava have checkered it at 16 LPI?

Have not clue. But I would simply use a single point if all you want to do is clean up the factory.

Guys I'm totally ignorant as to what I need. I see 60 degree and 90 degree cutters, fine and coarse cutters, V groovers, etc.

I thought that a single line cutter would work for the edge lines and a two or three blade cutter would work a lot quicker for the main field.

I just want to even up the depth of all the lines, sharpen up the diamonds and clean up all the edges where they didn't run the lines all the way to the borders.

What do I need?

I wouldn't bother with a gang cutting tool. I would re-point with a checkering file (some call them rifflers) and do the edges with a common 60 degree single cutter and veiner. But that's just me. There are many other ways to skin a cat.

Brownells sells a riffle file for checkering. I used one to clean up 40 years of wear on a set of Colt 1911 grips. Unless you have a young mans' eyesight, I recommend some form of magnification. Those lines will run together in hurry.
http://www.brownells.com/gunsm...g-rifflers/index.htm

And plenty of light!

The reason for the riffler is that it resists skipping over your diamonds. They cut very fine and like to follow the groove where the regular single point checkering cutters are far more aggressive for removing material quick and slight side pressure can move your line over or even cause the tool to skip over the line. They also make much prettier diamonds because of their fine cut. The down side to them is that you can only get to within about 1/10th of an inch of the border. That area you have to finish with a common 60 degree tool and a veiner.

I ordered a riffler and book on checkering from Brownells.

All their checkering kits have been out of stock for over a year

Just get a set off of ebay. If the cutters are worn you can order those from Brownells. Most guys buy the sets, look at the stock and fear and common sense overcomes them and they put the tools on ebay before they do something silly. lol

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:


All their checkering kits have been out of stock for over a year

That's because Brownells is turning into the 'Wally World' of gun supplies (notice I didn't say "gunsmithing supplies", as they'd rather sell AR drop-in parts to the kid down the street) and they are stocking what sells fast.

If you have a thread pitch gauge it can be helpful in determining the LPI.

Brownells can't get checkering tools to sell: not because they have changed their marketing strategy to ARs. The old makers of tools are gone and it is not economically feasible to make such slow sellers. So someone who does not want to make any money needs to step up and make them. I don't have time.

I'm already far to busy to take on a project like that. I am so good at losing money on every deal and making it up in volume, that I have amassed a lifetime backlog of doing everything for nothing. I have become so proficient at it, that I have actually cornered the entire market on it.

I would hesitate to re-cut checkering with a multiple row cutter unless it was the cutter originally used to lay out the pattern. You could get lucky but if the spacing is the slightest bit off, it'll show.

I use a fine single line cutter and short (Dembart S1) cutter paired with a veiner to re-cut checkering. Need to try the riffler files, it is very true the single line cutters can still hop off track if you aren't careful.

Thanks guys,

I'm ordering single line cutters C1, F1 and S1 from DemBart.

A veiner is a must have too. A power veiner is even better because it virtually eliminates your over-runs. But you need a Foredom LX power chisel for that. Or you have to silver solder a veiner tip to a WEN Power engraver (that's the cheap way) You can drive right up to the edge of the border with the power tool, stop, have a coffee, talk to the neighbor lady, kick the cat in the ass and then back out and do the next line. There is absolutely no pushing force needed to drive it.

MONSTER CONTROL ! ! ! !

Having NO power heads. I always switched to pull the cutter from the border. Would make a faint pattern cut then deepen on the pull stroke.

Buy one of these WEN power engravers for $25.00. Pull the chisel out of the veiner handle. Take it apart and file the opening square to take the square shank of the veiner so the veiner cant rotate in the unit. Then grind off the hammer strut somewhere inside the unit and silver solder the veiner to the strut. You don't even have to clean up the weld. No one will see it after its assembled. Put it back together. Then plug it in and start cutting lines and adjusting the hammer force until it glides through the wood with no effort. I've seen dozens of them on gunsmiths benches. Been making them for years. They burn out after about 20 or 30 hours of use and you throw them away and start over. Bout the same life as a palm sander. All you need is the gentlest of thumb and forefinger pressure to move it forward. No pushing and slipping. A monkey can make it and use it. I did. Got any bananas?

If you have a Foredom power chisel you just pull the chisel out of the veiner, grind it a bit and stick it into the power chisel hand piece. But that's a lot more than $25 and it doesn't work any better

100_2422 by Rod Henrickson, on Flickr

Walt at DemBart said that they wouldn't send out my checkering tools until mid February at the earliest.

I mentioned that Brownells has been out of their checkering sets for over a year and Walt said that it was their fault. Brownells has orders for more kits and DemBart can't keep up with the back orders.

There are several on Amazon. Don't know what Dem-Bart wants for a set of 3 but they are $70 something on Amazon and a set of 5 for $100 or there about.

quote:

Originally posted by drhall762:
There are several on Amazon. Don't know what Dem-Bart wants for a set of 3 but they are $70 something on Amazon and a set of 5 for $100 or there about.

Thanks, I was looking on Amazon but couldn't find any sets with 16 LPI tools to fit the Zastava checkering pattern. I was thinking of just sanding off all the checkering to slim down the stock and re-checkering it at a more common 18 LIP but I'm not ready for that yet.

If you are just cleaning up forget the 16LPI head. Use your single cutters.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
If you are just cleaning up forget the 16LPI head. Use your single cutters.

Absolutely! The European spacing could be in metric (1.5mm vs. 16) in English. About the same but just enough to screw the whole thing up. Use your single line cutter.

.
OK.
You got me.
In 35 years of gunsmithing I have never seen, or heard of metric checkering, or metric checkering tools. But with 7 billion people in this screwed up world, I have no doubt that some fool makes them. I just GOTTA ask: "Where, do you buy metric checkering tools?"

I have a grenouille gunsmith friend and I'm gonna buy the fawker a set for Xmas. LOL

quote:

Originally posted by speerchucker30x378:
.
OK.
You got me.
In 35 years of gunsmithing I have never seen, or heard of metric checkering, or metric checkering tools.

Beats me Rod, but I still wouldn't be surprised if it's something other than 1/16 inch spacing from a European country that's on the metric system.

Europeans and their stupid fawking metric. I guess they are just incapable of adding, subtracting, multiplying and division unless it happens to be in units of ten. We won't get into their fear of fractions. Understanding inches, feet, yards and miles just baffled them. But in the end the metric system didn't help them one iota. Look at all of the delta ΔL problems that they created just transposing American cartridge and chamber drawings into metric! They still haven't admitted that they screwed them all up and because of it they still haven't corrected them.

LOL
NO
FAWKING
BRAINS
!

quote:

Originally posted by speerchucker30x378:
Europeans and their stupid fawking metric. I guess they are just incapable of adding, subtracting, multiplying and division unless it happens to be in units of ten. We won't get into their fear of fractions. Understanding inches, feet, yards and miles just baffled them. But in the end the metric system didn't help them one iota. Look at all of the delta ΔL problems that they created just transposing American cartridge and chamber drawings into metric! They still haven't admitted that they screwed them all up and because of it they still haven't corrected them.

LOL
NO
FAWKING
BRAINS
!

Agree Rod,I had to change fifteen years into my career.We boomers have had to spend the rest of our time converting, which we have become quite good. Gear trains and such for metric threads..
What I cant understand with you European decedents is,how the hell do you manage with your money system?

quote:

Originally posted by John Chalmers:

What I cant understand with you European decedents is,how the hell do you manage with your money system?

I'll bite. Whats up with the money system that's difficult?

I just thought that you guys might want to know that Dembart hasn't shipped the checkering tools yet. I paid for them in January and they told me that they would ship in mid-February. At the end of February I emailed them and they said that they had a bigger lot to heat treat than they thought and they would be delayed again until mid-March.

They didn't answer my email from last week.

I just finish reshaping one of the mini Mauser and cut away all the original checking pattern. The stock is like a club so you have lots of things to reduce. I didn't take pictures of the completed stock with the 20 lines to inch.



The power tool is the NGraver tool used mostly for metal engraving, but it is perfect for the V shape veiner. The 60 and 90 degree tool is easy to make if you have a mill. I made milling cutters out of W-1 steel and harden. I used a piece of 1/2 X 1 X 6 inches as a back plate and cut a groove just deep enough to hold 1/8 in. drill rod. I could make these up in shop for my checkering students.

Back in 1956 I Made checkering tools out of old screw drivers. These were hand filed and they worked quit well. The angle was bent down 45 degrees and reharden. In 1964 I was working for Knights Gun Store, Ft Worth and Joe Knight was the stockmaker. He made his own ckeckering cutters which he learned from older stockmakers in the 1940's. Now days guys wouldn't try to make special cutter.

You probably are coordinated. My local gunsmith jumps for joy every time that I try a new project. I put his daughter through private college.

I'm sure you don't like the idea of ordering different tools since you've already paid Dembart, but you may want to check out Ullman Precision products for tools. I ordered a couple last month and have been amazed by how long they last. Been through four different stocks and they show no sign of dulling. They are quite a bit more expensive though. I believe it was around $50 a piece. It's been mentioned above, but all you need is a 60 and 90 degree tool if you're freshening up the checkering instead of a multi-point tool.

Mr. Brooks,

A bit off topic.....sorry.

A few years ago, a very close friend left me the rifle below....a martini 17AB. It was built by Lou Williamson, in Ft. Worth(Knight's??)circa 1968. He used a very distinctive forend shape.

Were you familiar with him?

Thanks,
Kevin

The original post was about cleaning up Zastava Checkering. I have imported and sold a fair amount of left hand Zastava M70s. The Checkering is pretty rough to begin with. Early ones had hand cut coarse Checkering, poorly done. The last batch is a little better as they put on flat English style Checkering, which I believe was done by machine. I think the grip is too fat so the Checkering is removed when I refinish stocks. Then I send it out to a professional to redo. I haven't checkered a stock since the 70s.

DemBart just refunded to purchase price of the tools to my VISA card with no explanation.

I ordered the tools in January and Walt called me then to clarify the order and answer some questions that I had. He told me then that the tools should ship by mid February.

I emailed him on the 28th of February and he replied that they had a bigger heat treat lot than they had planned for so the order would be delayed a couple more weeks.

I emailed Walt again on March 30th and just asked them for an estimate for when he thought that the tools would ship and didn't receive any reply.

I'm a very easy customer to deal with so I'm kind of puzzled as to what is going on.

Kevin,

Lou Williamson and I worked together in the late '60's at Knights Gun Store. Lou was a very good gunsmith and he was trained by P.O. Ackley in the early '50's.

Frank,

What checkering heads are you needing? I might have a few DemBarts let over as I switch over to carbide checkering tools about 30 yrs ago. The carbide cutters can be touched up with a diamond EzeLap from Brownells. I can post a picture of me using this method. The tools seem to cut better after they are reshapened as it take off some of the bit into the wood.

Thanks for the offer Les, very generous of you. I just ordered a starter tool set from Gunline earlier today.

Mr. Brooks,

It seems, at times, the world actually is smaller than you think......especially for an almost 50 year old rifle.

Thank You,
Kevin