I have read about the 454 Casull cartridge being
basically a high pressure 45 Long Colt. It uses an improved strength case in a firearm adequate to take higher pressures.

If you have a firearm capable of taking high
pressures is there any reason why you couldn't
load a 44 Magnum to 50,000 PSI levels ? The
44 Magnum case is an improved strength 44 Special case.

thanks, dxr

You almost answered your own question... The 454 Casull is to the 45 Colt, what the 44 Mag is to the 44 Special.

They are completely different calibers for another thing, and the 44 isn't even a true .44. It's just a matter of preference really.

Actually, in theory the 44 should be safer loaded to higher pressures than the 45 in a revolver with the same cylinder diameter. There is more metal surrounding a smaller diameter cartridge.

John Linebaugh has written some very interesting stuff on the potential of the 45 Colt. It's good reading.

The 454 gets listed at 50k c.u.p. and 65k psi.

It uses a small rifle magnum primer.
The small rifle magnum primer with a bushed firing pin is capable of very high pressures in the 6mmBR.

But for 50kcup or 65kpsi, the large rifle would have been just fine.

I have doubled the 454 load 20 gr H110 400 gr cast.
I have shot 40 gr H110 405 gr cast with 45 Colt brass and a Winchester large rifle primer all in a break action .410. It shoots just fine.

What does it all mean?
The 454 small primer pocket was a gimmick.

I am not convinced that either the .44 Magnum nor the .454 Casull have cases that are stronger than currently made (non-folded-head) .44 Special or .45 Colt cases. There are some loads for the .45 Colt that perform almost as well as the .454, but must be used in revolvers with specially-made, 5-shot cylinders so the chamber walls can be made thick enough. The basic difference between .45 Colt and .454 casull cases is the length. The .454 is longer to prevent some idiot from putting one in a standard .45 Colt by accident! (The first ".454 Casull" loads were loaded in .45 Colt brass, BTW. And that was 50 years ago!!)

In the .44s, the chambver walls are thick enough already. That's why Elmer Keith dropped the .45 Colt in favor of the 44 Special when he was developing the forerunners of the 44 Magnum.

In truth, heavy bullets can be used in the 44 Magnum at velocities that are plenty high enough for any use to which a handgun can be sanely put using data from current manuals. One does not need to load the 44 Magnum to 454 pressures at all, even though it is probably possible!

I was thinking more about heating up the
44 Magnum in a rifle. Remington 788 or a
current low wall 1885.

It just seems if you can load a 45 Colt hot
you should be able to load a 44 Magnum hot.
Hot meaning 45 to 50,000 psi, instead of
38,000.

dxr

dxr

The limiting factor is always going to be the firearm, not the cartridge case. As El Deguello said, the 45 Colt cases are as strong as the 44 magnum cases, in fact, some brands of 45 Colt are actually stronger than 44 Mag. But the cylinder wall thickness will always be bigger in the smaller caliber and thus you can load the 44 hotter than the 45. Not by much though.

I was one of those shooters who played with HOT 45 Colt loads back in the days of yore and I used both a Ruger SA and a special made N Frame S&W with a re-chambered 44 Mag cylinder. I loaded the heavy 45 bullets (300 gr) to velocities that exceeded the heaviest bullets in the 44 with never a sign that I was loading too hot.

Everything's changed nowadays what with the big and bigger revolvers and cartridge cases. Loads that were considered cutting edge 40 years ago are mild today.

Ray

I guess if the Puma 92 lever action can
take the 454 Casull....

I get your point Cheechako.

thanks, Chris

quote:

Originally posted by Cheechako:
dxr

The limiting factor is always going to be the firearm, not the cartridge case.

Ray

quote:

Originally posted by Cheechako:
The limiting factor is always going to be the firearm, not the cartridge case.

I don't know about this claim. Of all the blown up guns that I've seen, not one case was still intact. I think the limiting factor is the case.

quote:

Originally posted by Westpac:

quote:

Originally posted by Cheechako:
The limiting factor is always going to be the firearm, not the cartridge case.

I don't know about this claim. Of all the blown up guns that I've seen, not one case was still intact. I think the limiting factor is the case.

You are correct! I THINK what cheechako was alluding to is the fact that, in .45 Colt 6-shot revolvers, (and some lever action rifles as well), it has always been the thin, therefore weak chamber walls, that have limited the use of heavy loads, not the solid-head type .45 Colt cases.

This is a specific problem in this one application, whereas in modern, bolt-action and single-shot rifles, it is indeed the brass case that is the weakest component of the system.