I’ve been using Pilkington’s rust blue solution and some steels aren’t getting dark enough to suit me no matter how many times I hit it with the solution. I’ve used it on bead blasted stuff and stuff polished to 220. Sometimes it looks great, and sometimes not dark enough. What are you guys using? How do you do your metal prep?
i've had some that never got dark, a model 12 winchester jumps to mind. do you do an acid etch before starting? i don't think pilkington's instructions mention this but angiers book, while not saying is necessary, really recommends it. i've had very good luck that way, just a minute or so of muriatic acid brushed on (or soaked for small parts) followed by rinsing off w/ a hose, then clean water boil, drying the parts w/ a heat gun then immediate application of the 1st coat. but that 1st coat rust reeeeeal fast then.
also, be sure not to get the surface too wet w/ solution as will just be actively removing the color you just put down the last coat. i've come to believe that's my biggest problem - getting too much solution on subsequent treatments.
I haven't used acid but I have used Brownell's Steel White to remove old bluing and assorted rust and it kinda gives an etched surface. You may be on to something with the too much solution thing. I've suspected that I may have been guilty of that myself a few times. I've always got the first coat to rust like crazy. It's the other coats that sometimes don't seem to take as well.
angier didn't specifically say "muriatic" but i think his pickling acid formula was diluted hydrochloric. but the muriatic works and hasn't affected anything that i've been able to tell yet.
i bet tho it's the "too wet" issue. when i started, instructions be hanged, i slobbered the stuff on. after all, if a little is good then a lot must be a whole lot better, right?
something else i've come to believe - and is along same lines - put the stuff on HOT metal, and if you have to heat it in a toaster oven (small parts) or heat gun (bigguns) do so or maybe take the heat gun after application and gently dry the excess solution off the parts. that seems to help my latest results as have come out a good bit darker.
before a buddy tried it 1st time, i went thru a bunch of test samples - laurel mountain and pilkington, 3 diff levels of polish (100/200/300) both with and without pickling (the acid). i sortakinda think 220 grit was plenty and the acid helped. but i may not have been as careful of how much wetting as i should have.
billyhilly, I use Gun Goddess and have never had any problems with it. I do my metal prep with various wet and dry paper backed with a rubber eraser and at times I used plumbers cloth (the strips) and I go down to 320.
Gun Goddess?? Never heard of it but I like the name. Where do you get it? I have also tried using the heat gun on stuff. It does seem to help. I am thinking of trying some different solutions. Any opinions on the merits of the various ones available? Anyone tried Brownell's Dicropan?
After trying to whip up my own solution, I switched over to GunGoddess... Good Stuff to be sure- actually anything that will get the steel to rust evenly will work... I've used an entire bottle of Plinktons and gotten excellent results for the most part (with the occasional blow out ).
I boil in Simple Green/Water and then a generous acetone wipedown on a wire wheeled 320 stone polish. The parts should then be just moistened with the solution. Too much solution will eat into the previous layer of color. I feel that a 220 finish will "hold" too much solution- you may want to go a finer grit. Get that fine .0025 brush from Brownells- my work looked significantly better after switching to that wheel. Too many applications of the solution will turn the parts grey-blue with Plinktons- depends on the steel...
Posts: 360 | Location: PA | Registered: 29 September 2001
You could try using my rust bluing solution. Bluing was my full time profession until I could hardly stand to look at another barrel. Usually Nitric Acid is used for etching but I would not recommend using chemicals to etch(too uncontrollable). Use a blasting media which is an abrasive such as aluminum oxide or garnet (150 grit) For cleaning I like Simple Green. I sell Slow Rust #3 which acts similar to both solutions and Express Blue #1 and Express Brown #2. The Express solutions produce a true rust blue also but the rust is formed immediately. I prefer the Express personally but the procedures are different and some people adapt to one type better than the other. Pints are $20.00 and add $5.00 for shipping. I will stop myself and try to answer bluing questions as I see them. I will be here to rag on if they don't work for you, but I don't think that will happen. Thanks,Mark Lee
I'm another fan of your product. Blued my first rifle with the Express Blue a couple years back, havn't seen the need to change solutions yet. Welcome to AR.
Mark, Welcome to the forum. I've used your express blue with good results, thanks for the product. I like to warm the metal with a propane torch it really seems to help it work better. I've also found that the a Body shop style final cleaning prep solution works great for the final degrease before applying the solution. You can buy one of several kinds from automotive paint stores. I usually buy one of the less expensive ones and so far they have worked great. You might get a car painter to loan you a little to try and see how it works for you.......DJ
....Remember that this is all supposed to be for fun!..................
Posts: 3976 | Location: Oklahoma,USA | Registered: 27 February 2004
Thanks for posting this thread, fellas. I've got a rust blue question...How do you rust blue small, multipiece parts? I'm thinking specifically about the 3 position safeties or such. Do they have to come apart first? How do I blue these parts?
Thanks!
MKane160
You can always make more money, you can never make more time...........LLYWD. Have you signed your donor card yet?
Posts: 488 | Location: TN | Registered: 03 January 2004
I found Pilkington's to be very steel sensative. By that I mean certain alloys just would not give the color I wanted. I now use GUn GOddess fo rrifles and Laurel Mountain Forge for shotgun barrels. GG gives a nice blue color that i like on rifles and LMF gives a black finish that I feel is more appropriate for shotgun barrels
Posts: 2509 | Location: Kisatchie National Forest, LA | Registered: 20 October 2004
Mark, Welcome to AR. I do use another product for rust bluing but your excellent reputation has preceeded you. That is, if I can believe my friend Bill Soverns.
I do like the looks of your new rings, a stroke of genius.
Im currently working with their Dicropan IM (new formula) and the results are interesting to say the least. I know what some of the guys mean about putting on too much soloution at a time but this stuff (Dicropan IM) is different. It says right in the instructions to gob it on and it does work.
Ive found that Rust blueing is a fickle animal, change one small thing in a given procedure and you may be altering the final result dramatically.
Another thing that Angiers mentions which jibes with what Mark has said is that quite often a sandblast is sufficent for metal prep and there is no need for any further cleaning.
Question for Mark, Ive tried some 80 grit aluminum oxide but found it far too coarse and was considering trying some 250 grit glass bead for more of a satin finish. Would you reccomend the 150 grit abrasives you mentioned as opposed to a finer bead for more uniform results?
Ive had mixed results with Mark's express blue but Im sure that it is more because of the process Ive used than the soloution, and I will continue to work with it and other means until I find the results Im looking for. It is getting closer all the time. Fun stuff..
Posts: 10188 | Location: Tooele, Ut | Registered: 27 September 2001
The reason I recommend aluminun oxide over glass beads is that glass beads treats hard steels and soft steels much differently. Abrasives give a much more even etch to both hard and soft steel. There was an earlier question about how to blue small parts. I usually hold with a tweezer for applying solution , then put small parts in a basket for boiling in water. Small parts are still a pain though.
If you don't take them apart you really risk having parts rust internally and if you don't catch it early it could easily ruin them.
I suppose there is a technique that you could use to neutralze the acids that might work. I prefer to be absolutely sure by taking them apart. Also, the lever can be hardened for max wear. You might want to send it out to be case-colored and rust blue the rest. Jim Wisner's are sold that way and it looks really good.
"Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson.
Posts: 11142 | Location: Texas, USA | Registered: 22 September 2003
Always take everything apart for rust bluing. I always pull rifle barrels as it's not worth the fight with the grease and other contaminants coming out of the barrel threads.
Anyone have suggestions on how to get the early Savage 1899 blue. The receivers were of course high polished. I'm having my 1899B in .38-55 rebuilt at the moment. Here a link to the latest pix... I apologize it's a bit blurry Sav 1899B in .38-55
Posts: 333 | Location: Idaho | Registered: 21 December 2003
I believe the receivers on Savage1899 were carbonia blued. It was the standard of the gun trade. The bluing was done in rotating gas furnaces at about 700 deg. F. Basically a heat blue actually more like a scale. As the furnaces rotated the parts were held on racks. I believe the media in the furnace was basically a tumbling media mixed with oil but I'm speculating since I haven't done this type of bluing. I would really like to experiment with this someday.
Mark & vigillinus, Thanks for your inputs on this. I'll have to look into this process further. I love the bluing on these. I'd guess that it doesn't have the wear qualities of other bluing methods since we don't see too many minty specimens around. Jeff P
Posts: 333 | Location: Idaho | Registered: 21 December 2003
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