A 2nd gen Colt SAA in .357 came my way for repairs. All but the full cock notch on the hammer were broken off and the full cock notch was almost gone. I replaced with a new 3rd gen hammer and with a bit of trigger spring tension increase found the piece seemingly working properly, the trigger engaging the hammer notches positively and consistently. Then I loaded it with some .38's for live fire testing and discovered the full cock engagement no longer there and the hammer dropping back to half cock notch. Did this every time the hammer was pulled back. Unload it and it works again with full cock engagement positive and trigger pull crisp and consistent. Loaded it with empty cases and same results as when loaded with live rounds. My books make no mention of the problem involved and I can't see how the presence or not of cartridges in the cylinder can effect the hammer/trigger function. Any thoughts and help much appreciated.

Does the gun have a 2nd gen or a 3rd gen 357 cylinder.
(Center Bushing or no center bushing,,though late 3rd gen went back to the removeable bushing.
Best ID is by the difference in Ratchet style on the 3rdGen is different from 1st & 2nd)

When the daamaged 2nd Gen hammer was replaced, was the hand that went back into the gun 2nd gen or a 3rd gen,,and was it compatible with the Gen of the cylinder in the gun.

L believe the cylinder original and has the removable bushing. The new hammer appears identical to the original. The cylinder timing and lock up is proper. The hand and spring are from the old hammer.

Load one round at a time and see which chamber makes it not cock; if it makes any difference.
Only reason for what is happening is that the case rims are dragging on the recoil shield and causing it not to cock. Question; will it rotate by hand, loaded, when in half cock notch?
If I could see it, I would know.

Thanks, dpcd. I did as you suggested. The cylinder does spin freely when fully loaded. Loading one round at a time results in normal hammer engagement until the empty cylinder just before the loaded chamber is in the fire position. The hammer will not engage the trigger in this position. Cocking the hammer and bringing the loaded chamber up and the hammer does engage and would fire. This pattern is consistent and will repeat with one round in any other chamber. Loaded-no full cock. Unloaded, cocks and releases perfectly. There has to be a mechanical solution but right now I'm baffled.

Seems to me the problem has to involve the hand as it and the bolt are the only two parts that come into play with the cylinder rotation. And save that old hammer as it can be welded up and the notches recut. I made a simple jig for doing so and have welded up a number of them.

Most likely the top of the hand is jamming against the case rim and not allowing the hammer to be fully pulled back. Although they look identical, 2nd and 3rd hammers are a bit different in the notch geometry and I believe also the hand pivot hole location and hammer cam. 2nd and 3rd triggers are slightly different too. There is also a little transition overlap from late 2nd to 3rd in these parts, as well as 2 different firing pins in the 2nd gen guns. It can give you some gray hairs. Just went through this on a late 2nd gen that someone had done a "trigger job" on it and screwed up the timing. Might be best to have the broken hammer welded up and recut. Ray Miebaum used to do a top notch job of it, but he has passed on. Looks like Toomany Tools might be able to help you there.

Sorry, not me. I retired almost two-years ago.

Note when the bolt drops into the cylinder slot, and tell us that. If it locks up enough before full cock, you might get lucky and be able to shorten the hand. Then it will cock before the hand jams up. But if the cylinder is not already locked, then that can't be done.
If I could see it, I would know; bring it over.

Cylinder lock and full cock should happen at exactly the same time. If full cock is late, that is a sign of wrong hammer and/or trigger, or bubba moved the full cock notch or trigger nose (or both) in an attempt to "fix" the trigger pull. It doesn't take much to mess things up.

The owner preferred a new hammer over welding and cutting notches and all the 2nd gen hammers I found were the short style or modified.
Gentlemen your help lead me to my ah-haw moment and seems like it should have been obvious. The hand is definitely being affected by the cartridge case rim. Now to determine why without changing the correct timing. Dpcd ty for the generous offer but I think we are quite distant.

I just checked 8 SAAs; all cocked at the same time as bolt drop except two; and they cocked a millisecond after bolt lock up. What you don't want is the opposite.
I have no small calibers though (as in 38 size rim); it would be hard for the hand to hit a case rim; can you see marks on them? Coat some black and look at the marks.

2cd and 3rd Gen hammers (or most functional parts) are not interchangeable. The correct repair is to the broken hammer. There are folks out there who weld and recut notches. Find one and get it done.

quote:

Originally posted by larkin:
The owner preferred a new hammer over welding and cutting notches and all the 2nd gen hammers I found were the short style or modified.
Gentlemen your help lead me to my ah-haw moment and seems like it should have been obvious. The hand is definitely being affected by the cartridge case rim. Now to determine why without changing the correct timing. Dpcd ty for the generous offer but I think we are quite distant.

Peacemaker Specialist has some 2nd gen hammers available.I believe both good used and welded. Hold on to your seat....and wallet!

Update: TY for the input SDH. Had repairs been made to the original hammer it might have cost less then the new hammer and have the rampant colt stamp which the new hammer did not. As the seller did not allow returns unless their mistake I had to try and make it work.
I stoned the hammer cocking notch, cutting very little at a time, assemble and try, then cutting some more. The trigger started engaging with the cylinder full of empty cases, so I continued until getting full and positive trigger engagement with a consistent light and crisp trigger pull. Live load testing of 18 .38's followed by 3 .357's went flawless and I am confident to return the piece as fully repaired.
Dpcd, Kendog, Toomanytools, SDH, 2152hq I am grateful for your suggestions and advice to a non expert SSA repairer. Hopefully this info will help others.

TIMEING IS CRITICAL WITH OLD COLTS AND MIXING OLD AND NEW PARTS DOES NOT WORK SMETIMES, MAYBE ALL THE TIME..i LIKE THOSE OLD GUNS AND HAVE HAD THEM CRASH SORTA LIKE YOU DESCRIBE AND MY SMITH FIXED THEM TWO OR THREE TIMES AND SAID THEY WERE JUST OUTA TIME. hE WAS A PISTOL SMITH WORKED ON NOTHING ELSE, BAD NEWS IS HE PASSED AWAY SOME YEARS AGO, BUT iM SURE THERE ARE OTHERS, Colt COULD FIX ANY Colt. /