I wonder if that type of safety could be adapted to the shroud of say a Mark X or a newer FN Commercial action. Has anyone here ever tried it. I remember seeing ads for it a long time ago in Rifle Magazine, but havent seen the ad for years.

you can see the type of safety I am writing about on the photo. (by the way, thats Ray's Model 21 he wants to sell)

.

I bought 2 fn shrouds with that idea, never actually did it. I've since acquired a 21h

Rich

These can be adapted to any 98. I have one on a Mexican Mauser.

FLA3006

Where did you get the parts, or part. I am talking about preserving the Mark X shroud and just installing the safety part on the shroud.

Rich

Thanks very much for posting the clear close up photos. Appreciate it.

Alf

Ray claims its original.
"
Posted 10 December 2009 20:49
I have a very rare Brno Model 21 round top small ring 7x57, Deluxe European walnut wood!, no drill and tap, stock is about 3/4s and has the stirrup sling swivel like a Ruger International..very rare variation made about 1946..A beautiful and original rifle."

If you want a similar safety but not exactly like the Brno I would use a military with an aftermarket wing safety like the ones Numrich or Brownells offers. Or an FN Deluxe take-off, those are pretty common cause lots of guys replace them with M70 type safeties. I think to alter the Mark X safety similar to the Brno would be pretty difficult, parts would have to be fabricated. (I installed a complete M21/22 safety & shroud on my Mexican)

I agree with Alf, that rifle pictured was originally a fullstock, someone cut it down. At least they didn't D&T the receiver.

FLA3006

If you ever have one apart please send me a photo. Thanks! ( a person should have purchased a whole bunch of those 21s back in the day and just put them in grease and left them there. They are so nice!!!)

I will have to break the bad news to Ray that his stock has been cut.

I am making one right now and fitting it into an FN shroud. It's not a job for either the faint-hearted or the lazy, it's a BEAR! I like the FN style better but wanted the lighter weight of the Brno style.
Regards, Joe

Mr. Steele, could you post some pics?

quote:

Mr. Steele, could you post some pics?

you took the words right out of my typing fingers!

Hey FLA3006

is that your Pup in that avatar?

quote:

22WRF: Hey FLA3006 is that your Pup in that avatar?

Kevin, he's a 12 year old pup now, my best friend:

.

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
Alf

so what would be the thing to do with it? Sister a piece on and restore it?

In doing that I'm not sure you would increase the value of the gun enough to justify the cost of the repair. I have owned quite a few of these guns and only the unaltered excellent condition guns bring a premium price. You can find several of these guns listed for sale on the net in the price and condition range that Ray has posted, but they have been listed for awhile and are still unsold.

quote:

Originally posted by fla3006:

quote:

22WRF: Hey FLA3006 is that your Pup in that avatar?

Kevin, he's a 12 year old pup now, my best friend:

Looks like a miniature Schnauzer? I have a black male...he talks a lot!

Alf,
This is the gun I emailed you about and I believe you told me that you had one also, so I assumed you believed it to be original, that was an AR PM as I recall, as was your reply to me, so it should be available somewhere in computer land....

I also took the gun to Gary Hopper, the largest collector of fine guns in the Idaho area, and he told me it was an original, and he had seen a couple of them, otherwise I would be looking for a Manlicher stock or giveing some serious consideration to restocking this one in a nice piece of Circasian walnut that I have on hand..I just didn't want to mess with an original gun so was going to trade it for a Manlicher or sell it and buy another with double square bridges so I could scope it and hunt with it. Also the swivel is original but appears to be different than what I remember on a Manlicher? maybe.

BTW I emailed you as to when you would be down this way and never received a reply.

The one mechanical aspect of these superb rifles I really detest is the safety. I have four of these, at present and always change the safety to a bolt locking 3-pos. type.

I have seen a lot of these rifles for some 50+ years here in BC and used to speak with the western Canadian importer here every so often. I have never seen one of this configuration, but, I trust Ray's integrity and some Chech immigrants here have told me that there were several types of these made, so, who knows?

Dewey,
I was sure it was original when I purchased it, and did my homework on it, but I may have messed up on it...The gun came out of Alaska to me as an original gun. If it is not then I will d&t it and restock it or find a Manlicher stock which I think I can do, as I have a line on an old stockmaker that built custom guns off these actions and he has some stocks, hopefully a Manlicher...

I will take the gun off the market until I know what I have for sure.

Dewey

What did you do with the safeties that you changed out?

AND

a question about drilling and tapping one of these.

Surely one could make a set of bases that could be held on by some sort of wrap around clamp,or some sort of sleeving system, I would think. It would almost be a crime to drill and tap one that is still original.

quote:

22WRF: It would almost be a crime to drill and tap one that is still original.

The metal on that rifle is still all original, I would not D&T it. And the stock, though cut, doesn't look bad. I'd leave it as is and enjoy it in the field.

I just received a couple of interesting emails, (actually one a phone call). One involved a very prominient arms dealer in the Chicago suburbs who has 3 of these rifles for sale..The other from a fellow in Checoslavakia. Also one stateing exactly the same thing from one of our posters.

The dealer advises my poster that the gun is definatly not chopped off and that is original if it is marked 1946 ceskoslovenskazbrojovka.as. then has Brno stamped in fine letters smaller than the rest, like it was added on..my gun has exactly those markings as he described.

The other fellow from the Chex Impire said he has seen many of that variation of Brno years ago, and they were not all that uncommon, but rarer than the 721 or 722, They were originally numbered as such as opposed to 21 and 22...

I also took the gun out into bright sun light just now and looked at it with a magnifying glass, and I am almost positive it has not been refinished or chopped off at the forend and as a stock maker I don't believe you can match a finish to the point that you cannot tell under extreme light. I don't believe this gun has been chopped off.

Also the person in question, prefering to remain off the internet, told me that these guns were produced in this form during WW11 or very shortly thereafter and in two variations, one have Waffenfabreck Brun and the other marked CZ on the front ring top and mine is the one that has the Brno marking in thin line lettering and the CZ on top as in the pictures. It is also marked 1946 as stated. the dealer apparantly has two of one and one of the other.

I am personally convienced this gun is back to its original status based on this very informative information from other informed individual. Add to this Gary Hoppers belief it is original and the comments made by Dewey about what some Checs have told him, and that goes with my phone calls and emails..I am once again believeing my gun is original.

Based on this I go back to my original price and will keep it without any alteration being done to it of any kind.

If you buy it you buy with the same knowledge that is on this thread..

At any rate it has been a most enlightening thread to say the least. I will continue to investigate this nice old guns originality.

quote:

I like the FN style better but wanted the lighter weight of the Brno style.

What kind of weight savings do you expect?

I like the Brno Safeties, especially with iron sights, and on a DG rifle as you can carry it with the thumb on the safety and just drop your thumb and shoot..

It is a little tight with a scope to get the old thumb in there however, so on a scoped DG rifle I would either modify to half sticking up or use a pre 64 3 pos. safety..The one thing I don't like about the 3 pos. safety is its a long push to off safety...actually I like the old Enfield safety as well as any I have used.

I supppose its mostly what one gets used to...