Doug Humbarger NRA Life member Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club 72'73. Yankee Station
Try to look unimportant. Your enemy might be low on ammo.
Posts: 8350 | Location: Jennings Louisiana, Arkansas by way of Alabama by way of South Carloina by way of County Antrim Irland by way of Lanarkshire Scotland. | Registered: 02 November 2001
Of course there is, on both counts. All one has to do is look down the bores of the various models. The Sendero's barrels are very good quality compared to the ragged SPS.
_______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life.
I don't know the key words you would need to search for, but I, and others, have mentioned several times how bad Remington higher grades can be. The absolutely worst action I have ever seen a rifle that was at the very upper end of their product line. I have seen other Custom Shop guns that were almost as bad. Some shot incredibly poorly. I have yet to hear of Remington calling a Custom Shop gun defective if it would hold groups of 2 1/2"
So basically, buyer beware. You may get a good one. You also may get one that is worse than every M700 ADL sold at WalMart. I have seen some really good WalMart actions before. Most of them were older, though.
Posts: 2509 | Location: Kisatchie National Forest, LA | Registered: 20 October 2004
Westpac wrote: "The Sendero's barrels are very good quality compared to the ragged SPS."
That is basically the kind of info I was looking for. Now, do you think that is because of better quality control or are there different manufacturing steps?
Originally posted by sjmci: Westpac wrote: "The Sendero's barrels are very good quality compared to the ragged SPS."
That is basically the kind of info I was looking for. Now, do you think that is because of better quality control or are there different manufacturing steps?
The difference is so drastic that I believe they are from a different manufacturer all together.
_______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life.
Is there any difference in barrel quality as one goes up the line in the Model 700?
Read their website carefully. They say carbon steel barrels for their cheap SPS models but don't say anything about the type of steels used on the others except the 416 stainless barrels.
It has been rumored that they buy these barrels.
Posts: 908 | Location: Western Colorado | Registered: 21 June 2006
I don't look down barrels but I do look at targets and cleaning patches.
Both my 243 and 7mm08 stainless SPS are as accurate and foul less than any of my shihlens, borders or lothar walthers (maybe slightly unfair as these are all CM) Quite simply they don't copper foul.
Superbly accurate (they have been shortened and recrowned) maybe I've been lucky.
Factory barrels are bought on a contract basis. All barrels vendors say thay can make the same high quality barrel. Look at the winners in the target shooting world and tell me you see their select, match grade barrels on factory guns. The barrels the public sees are not the same as those the military sees unless there are supply over runs. Factory chambers are cut with reamers that have cut hundreds of chambers without being reground or checked by a real tool maker. Factory guns are assembled as quickly as they can. Time is mone at the factory. Don't fool yourself.
Originally posted by Longshot: Factory barrels are bought on a contract basis. All barrels vendors say thay can make the same high quality barrel. Look at the winners in the target shooting world and tell me you see their select, match grade barrels on factory guns. The barrels the public sees are not the same as those the military sees unless there are supply over runs. Factory chambers are cut with reamers that have cut hundreds of chambers without being reground or checked by a real tool maker. Factory guns are assembled as quickly as they can. Time is mone at the factory. Don't fool yourself.
Rustystud
Good posting, and right on! That's why I do all of the things to a factory rifle to get it to shoot well, that weren't done at the factory; like barrel lapping, trigger jobs, and stock bedding. Ultimately, I can get them to shoot well.
I have shot nearly every model of 700 built in the last ten years in various calibers. I do not believe one version of the rifle gets a better barrel than any other or that you should expect a custom shop gun to outshoot an SPS. It is not realistic to expect factories to barrel with match barrels on their standard lines. The custom shop MIGHT SOMETIMES use one on 40-X rifles. I had one with a Hart barrel, but the rifle was second hand. The worst Remington I have owned was a Custom KS Mountain Rifle in .300 Wby Mag It averaged 2-3 minutes. With the best loads it would occasionally do about 1.5 minutes. Conversely, I bought a used .222 Rem BDL that would shoot in the .2's and have seen lots of ADL/SPS rifles that would shoot sub half-minute. Most though will shoot around and inch. Keep your expectations realistic, they are produced in mass and assembled very quickly.
Remington has made their own barrels for a while now. With gun margins as low as they are, I doubt the QA specs are all that tight.
But I have factory ADLs, a 760 from the old days and a Sendero that all shoot well. I think the bad-shooting Remingtons are more often receiver or assembly-based flaws than barrel issues.
I've seen lots of poor tolerances, crooked barrel threads and/or receiver ring threads, misaligned scope base holes and crooked chambers/crowns but few bad barrels. Rough maybe, but even their rough barrels shoot OK.
FWIW, their sales staff will tell you that the newest barrrels made from a brand new mandrel go into the BDL, the middle run into another production run and the last (supposedly as the manderl wears out) into the bottom line. My first reaction to that was to accept it as fact but as I think about it, it's probably sales BS. It would make no appreciable improvment in accuracy and cost a bunch to integrate the production lilnes like that.
"Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson.
Posts: 11141 | Location: Texas, USA | Registered: 22 September 2003
