MIDWAY

[This message has been edited by GSF1200 (edited 04-30-2002).]

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

quote:

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Originally posted by Atkinson:
Never again will I buy from Ebay..

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'splain whatcha mean.

Signed,

Curious in Michigun

I think Rays comment was referring to buying somewhat elses junk.

So, for $99 for the barrel and stock, $50 for the VZ-24 action, and my own labor I can have a rifle.

Could it foul easily and often? Maybe. I haven't had one yet that does, but maybe this one will.

Low value? Not to me. I'd rather be out shooting than sitting at home saving pennies so that someday I can own a "valuable(?)" stock and barrel.

As Ray wisely pointed out in another (unrelated) thread, folks should do their own experimentation before passing judgement on the real world results of others. To do otherwise just comes off as arrogant and ignorant.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

quote:

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Originally posted by Customstox:
GSF, if it is that easy to make $50 off of crap, buy 50 of them and peddle them on ebay.

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Kinda what I was thinking....

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Doug Humbarger
NRA Life member

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Doug Humbarger
NRA Life member

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Doug Humbarger
NRA Life member

I would like to do one myself just for the experience...

What are your plans for the bolt handle, replace or forge?

Mike

While I'm posting pics, I'll add these other 7 rifles on my rack with low value, crap barrels. The first one fouled so bad and shot so poorly I had to buy 6 more:

And still more pictures showing wastes of money. Think expensive equals good? The parts for the following car cost at least twice as much as those for just about any other car. Was it faster or more reliable? Not by a long shot!! The two girls in the following picture cost me more than any rifle. I finally got smart and sold the one, the other says she's gonna wait to leave until she's done with college (14 years from now):

Over the last 4 years or so I have fitted and headspaced quite a few A&B barrels. I would say no one shot groups worse than 2 1/2 inches at 100 yds. Probably 25% shot minute of angle or better. Yes they do foul quicker than a premium grade barrel. Contrary to what someone posted on another thread the threads are 55 degree not 60 degree, at least all the ones I have checked are. Also the fit of the threads to the action is suprisingly good, not perfect but pretty decent.

I refuse to just screw the barrel in and finish chambering. First the locking lugs are lapped in, the the action is set up on a mandrel and the receiver ring is faced off true. Then the barrel is placed in a 4 jaw chuck and the bore indicated to one tenth of a thousandth, then the shank is machined so that both the torque ring and the action face will contact equally when torqued down. The chamber is then finished in the lathe and headspaced, then the barrel is reversed and the crown recut, they are usually burred and off a little. Finally the barrel is installed on the action and test fired with factory ammo.............I think I see a greater number of these barrels perform well due to the extra care in fitting.

Bear Claw is 100 percent right. A lot of people get started in building and modifying rifles this way. If they had to start with a Win Model 70 action and a Shilen select match barrel they would never get their feet wet. Just watch, it wont be long before GSF 1200 will be building another rifle on a Sako action and a Krieger barrel all because he got hooked with an A&B.

When a customer approaches me about fitting an A&B barrel to a low cost action I tell them that their biggest expense will be my labor and buying a premium barrel is cheap insurance that the project will turn out well. However when they are doing the work them self like GSF 1200 then the A&B barrels and cheap stocks are great for learning on and getting your feet wet.

Bear Claw, how long has it been since you had a good batch of boudin? I use to hunt the East Texas piney woods around Lufkin and Nachadoches, boy was the boudin and crawfish good there!

My specific comment to crap was if it did not work out then he was going to make $50 on crap. Although I did enjoy the car photo. Sam, it looks nice (horrible understatement). Does it come in four wheel drive?

Of course these barrels and stocks have a place. I hear of people claiming to buy surplus arms and use the existing barrels and that they shot well. I have never at least of late, seen one that didn't look like chickens (tiny ones mind you) were living in them.

The fouling in cheaper barrels really hits home when you end up with a top grade barrel. Most folks don't want to pay the fare but it is almost worth it just for the easy clean up to me. I was shooting a Magnum Research .223 today and it came with a Kreiger barrel that is hand lapped. I have never had a barrel that cleaned so fast and fouled so little. You don't get that for $50 but these folks understand that.

I have a Shaw barrel on a Mauser that I built some years ago. It shoots very well but fouls if you just saw the words "copper" around it.

Chic

I'm eventually going to give it a try just to see the results! After I've done it with my own hands I'll be satisfied until I can get, and learn how to operate a lathe.

Thanks,
Mike

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From my cold, dead hands!
Thanks Chuck!

If you took an NRA summer class on rebarreling for one week, it would cost around $250.00 tuition, $150.00 room and board and probably quite a bit in transportation. Not to mention lost wages that week.

If you purchase a good 98 Mauser action, a cheap stock, A&B barrel, and tooling you probably would spend less. If you ruin something consider it the cost of your training. Everyone who has done gun work has ruined something, there is nothing wrong with that as long as you know what you did wrong, corrected it or replaced it and considered it the cost of learning.

Try to hook up with a gunsmith who will coach you through the little snags you will hit. Purchase a good gunsmithing book or two, try "Advanced Rebarreling of the Sporting Rifle" by Will Fowler and "The Complete Illustrated Guide to Precision Rifle Barrel Fitting" by John Hinnant.

You can buy just about all the tooling you need from Midway. If you cant find a local gunsmith to tutor you when you have a problem e mail me and I will try to help you as best I can.

If you are good with tools and mechanical things and can follow directions from a book then you will do OK.

The upside is that I went there with the expecation of getting some things done. I ended up with 5 actions barreled, all of them surface ground and a quarter rib built for one of them. Add that into the plus side along with the knowledge gained and in my book these are an incredible bargain. Even the weeks food at their student union building was very reasonable.

I loved their "book store" where you could buy barrels,and argentine 1909 actions, carry them through campus without a SWAT team being called.

I have an action wrench, barrel vise, barrel block(steel) and bushing for large ring Mauser...also some rosin and a Kuhnhaeusen manual. So far I have taken the barrel off a VZ-24 and that is all.

Mike

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If you use the [url=]MIDWAY[/url] thingy with the above link after the equals sign, it will shrink this thread back to a normal width and it will still work like thisMidway

Mike

I agree with you, I think these NRA summer courses are terrific. Like you indicated, they are worth a lot more than the actual costs. I try to take a class on something differant each summer when possible. My favorite so far was the color case hardening with the late John Hackley.

I am looking forward to taking a class with Mark Stratton at Trinidad this year. He is bringing a lot of his jigs and fixtures for me to copy. Come to think of it wasn't that you that wrote the article about attending Stratton's class in the "Gunmaker"? A pretty good article. I am saving my mad money for a visit to the "book store". Part of the classes will involve 09 Argentines and converting to straddle floor plate.

Otto

I think if you are careful you could do a cast lead lap job on an A&B barrel and improve it's performance. I have examined a few with a bore scope and they have plenty of rough tool marks. That would be the basis for a good article, find an A&B that would not group well, test and document it, then do a cast lead lap job and run the same tests for comparison.

Ready on the right

Looks like you are tooled up and prepared for the job. Go for it. Test fire the barreled action tied to an old tire with factory ammo. If you screw something up it probably could be corrected, if not you have only spent $100.00 or so on " Tuition ".

Mark has some very neat fixtures and the new gunmaker arrived today with a new one in it. He is a great resource.

Chic

Mike

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The important thing is what you expect from it, which is where the differences in opinion arise from. I expected to have fun, and end up with something I'd be proud to hunt with because I built [most of] it. If you expect to craft a valuable custom rifle using cheap parts, well...

Enjoy.
Todd

The barrel is very rough inside. The button must have chattered in all the barrels, as the hatch mark on the lands and in the grouves always line up.

The first shot fouls, the next three shots are touching, and from then on, it is 2 inch groups. The copper fouling is intense.

I will never buy or chamber another A&B barrel. I have a few blanks that are for sale.