The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing Tikka T3 Factory Rings - is this a problem?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Bought these rings used, when they arrived they look like this. Note the bulge in the aluminum. Is that normal? or the sign of a material defect?   Mike Legistine actu? Quid scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | ||
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Looks like the pin hole was undersized, but they pushed the pin in, anyway. | |||
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I presume you are referring to the bulge outboard of the base pin. My guess is that it is from the base slipping in recoil and the stop pin holding. Probabbly OK. It could also be a result of when the pin was pressed into it's mortise and it displaced metal in the weakest direction. | |||
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I think it was from the ring slipping under recoil. Only you can answer how comfortable you would be using them. Personally I would look for new ones. | |||
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Here's an unused set, looking in at the recoil pin from the inside of the ring you can see metal gauling in front of the pin so I'd say the bulge showing in my photo is caused by the recoil pin being pressed into a 'too' much undersized hole. In your images I'd say the pin is now bulging the side of the ring out even more due to recoil. I haven't seen how the rings sit on Tikka bases, does the pin hang over the end of a base or fit into a corresponding hole in a base? If the latter why not have the recoil pin in the middle of the ring and base. Just another example of thoughtless engineering.   | |||
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They sit right on the receiver, no base required and the their is a recess hole in the top of the receiver that is oblong and oversized. And yes it is odd that that small round pin goes into that oversized oblong hole. The smaller holes you see are for the mounting of weaver or other style bases.  Mike Legistine actu? Quid scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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So no reason for the pin to be on the outer edge of the ring base, could be in the centre surrounded by more metal where it can't bulge out the edge. The old Parker Hale rings had an abomination of a recoil stud which fitted into a hole in the base, the abomination being that the stud was tapered fitting into a countersunk hole in the soft alloy mounting base. Who would have predicted that recoil would just work to lift the ring off the base because of this taper/countersunk relationship. Not the PH designers/engineers. Good thing about the Tikka is that it is all drilled and tapped ready to mount some decent Weaver bases and rings and get rid of the poorly engineered proprietary stuff. | |||
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Mike, Not normal. Should have been mentioned. Life itself is a gift. Live it up if you can. | |||
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Completely normal! When you press a steel pin into a hole (how much interference fit they allowed I have no idea) in aluminum so close to the edge, that is what you get; the weakest area will give. If it was from recoil, the pin would be loose because metal that is displaced outward, has to have a commensurate gap on the other side of the hole. Use them. | |||
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If they had just milled a blind dovetail into the rear bridge (like they did on the receiver ring) both rings would have positive stops where the dovetails ended. No need for a stop pin. Then use some quality steel rings instead of the cheezy aluminum ones. | |||
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Sorry dp. With all due respect ... I see a mounting error here. It appears as if both mounts were not properly tightened on the dovetail and the result was that the alignment pin took the rearward pressure instead. I don't think the pin was designed to take much if any pressure, just for alignment and possibly a safety feature to retain a loose mount. End point ... The cosmetic damage is not structural. But, the value is less. Life itself is a gift. Live it up if you can. | |||
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Observations and facts bearing on the issue: 1. I have several sets of Warne Tikka rings; they have the pins mounted in the same place; they call the pin a "recoil pin". 2. Dovetail clamps alone will not keep scopes from moving under recoil. 3. If it wasn't for recoil, it serves no other purpose; and then the rings would move forward and jam into the radius of the DT cut. 4. If MD's pin was moved from recoil, it would be loose and have a gap at the front; it isn't, and, doesn't. 5. Note Eagle's new, unused ring; it is also distorted. Of course, everyone is entitled to their own conclusions based on the same facts. | |||
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Sure looked like it was hammered from recoil because the bulge is more pronounced at the bottom of the ring. As for the new ring, I see no swelling. Thanks for the explanation. I have been swayed a bit. When and if I see it in person (my T-3 has a Picattiny rail mounted) my thoughts may change. Thanks again dpcd. CB Life itself is a gift. Live it up if you can. | |||
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4. In the image MDs pin does have a gap on the side of the pin away from the 'break-out' bulge which can only be cause by recoil. I agree that no dovetail clamps without a stud, cross bolt, etc., will prevent rings moving on bases under recoil. Just some 'anti recoil' engineering is better than others e.g. Weaver original rings with a square section cross bolt that sits in square section slots in the bases. The cheap knock off Weaver style rings that use round cross bolts in square section slots or even worse, in round section slots on bases are further examples of dumb engineering. I often wonder what manufacturers are thinking when they come up with flawed basics like this. The Tikka rings would have been perfectly satisfactory if the recoil pin was inserted in the centre of the ring base not the outer edge where it has little support, especially in alloy. | |||
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He told me personally that there is no gap and that the pin is not loose. I'm not relying on the image. The rings are only responding to the hole in the rifle receiver. Blame Tikka for the design. | |||
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FYI - the pin is tight and what looks like a "gap" in the back is really "shadow" because the whole edge is slightly beveled. The front has same slight bevel but the camera is not perfectly over the pin so the front of the pin/hole junction is obscured. Mike Legistine actu? Quid scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Nice Moose in Profile/Avatar Pic, BTW. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing Tikka T3 Factory Rings - is this a problem?
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