$115.00 at www.ellisonsmilitaryrifles.com

Looking to build another rifle. Already have .460WM and .416REM. Any .375 wildcats this action would be suitable for. Also considering 25/06 as my stash starts at 30/06. Thanks Cobalt

JLD Enterprises, www.jldenter.com, also has 1909 actions in stock, in various grades, starting at $90.

I think a .375 in a standard length action is a great idea. I'm thinking about a .375 Dakota myself...

Sam,
I checked out the .375 Dakota on the reloading forum. No belt, what's the parent case, OCL? Thanks.

From Cartridges of the World:

"The 375 Dakota is a shortened and necked-down version of the basic rebated-rimless 404 Jeffery case, but the rim is enlarged slightly to eliminate the rebated feature. Design purpose was to create a cartridge that would duplicate 375 H&H performance from a 30-06 length action...Usable case capacity is nearly identical to the 375 H&H and, if loaded to equal pressures, ballistics are the same."

COL is listed at 3.32".

Sounds good to me!

How far do you have to open the rails to feed the Dakota/Jeffrey case? How about just doing one in 404 Jeffrey (but shorter?)?

Sam, sounds good to me also, but the larger rim makes it a proprietory case and not one I can form from Jeffery brass. I have not checked the price of Dakota brass but it may be about the same as Jeffery. Nice to have the correct head stamp anyway. This will not be a high end rifle. Laminated stock, matt finish, no fixed sights, modified bolt, replacement trigger and probably a Douglas bbl topped by a 2-7X. An old timer in Penn built most of my rifles back in the late 80's. I hope he is still active. Thanks, Bob

Cobalt,
I would really look into the Dakota if that size case is what you are looking for. The Dakota site lists the brass for $180/100. Huntingtons lists the 404 for ~$25/20.

Hi Bob,

the difference in rim diameter is only .007 (.544 vs .537 on the Jeffery), I don't see any reason why cases couldn't be made from Jeffery brass. The bolt and extractor could be opened up to accept the larger rim and still extract the smaller rim.

OK, I've sold myself. I'm ordering a .375 blank today (and a 9.3mm while I'm at it).

What a horrible hobby!

I guess the big question is--will the 1909 Argentine be suitable for the .375 Dakota in terms of strength? Also, how does the .375 Taylor compare ballistically to the Dakota? I certainly appreciate your collective expertise. Cobalt

Sam,
I just noticed that you live in PA. Do happen to know John Trosiek? He built a number of rifles for me in the late 80's. The town Export, PA rings a bell. I believe he lived way out in the country with Export being the closest town. Cobalt

Cobalt,
The m1909 is THE action to use for a custom. Once you have a good one and polish (read: not grind) they are so pretty they'll make you cry.
If you are unsure the action can be hardness tested or simply have it reheat treated. The finishing touch would be to have it massaged ultra smooth on the inside, reheat treat, stress relieve by 300 Below and color case harden.
Oh man...I'd better stop, I'm at work and getting this excited can be embarrasing.

Why not a .376 Steyr? You can get the brass from Hornady, and it's length is ideal for 3.3" Mauser magazines.

Sam,
Just talked to my smith in Pa. Actually he is in McClellandtown. He has some sweet VZ-24's and thinks it would be a better action for the Dakota or Taylor than the Argentine. New bolt, trigger assembly, rings and bases, 22in bbl with 1:12 twist, all matte blue in a laminate stock. He did my .460wm, .416Rem and my early 50's M-70. Deposit is in the mail. Still debating Dakota vs Taylor. BOB

Roger,
I know where you are coming from! I haven't had a new rifle made in over 10 years and I am really pumped. My smith asked me if I was interested in color case hardening the action and I said the matte finish was fine. UMMM, maybe I need to reconsider??? What is your opinion of the Argentine vs the VZ-24? Cobalt

How aboutg the .375 Taylor? AKA .375x338 Win. Mag. Does everything a .375 H&H does in a standard length action, and seems to kick a lot less too. I have one on a Ruger 77 early model with the tang safety, in a Ramline stock. Total weight 7.5 pounds, and it does just what I said it does. It even kicks less than my 9.5 pound .375 H&H.
It's not quite finished yet, as I still haven't decided what kind of iron sights to put on it, but it does well with just the scope.
The biggest advantage is .338 Mag. brass is a lot easier to find the the Jeffery stuff, and using .458 Win. Mag. brass, it's just a neck down process. You don't have to fireform, just load up the full charge and fire away. It just sharpens out the shoulders.
Paul B.

Paul,
That's exactly what I am leaning towards. My smith recommended a 1:12 twist and I want the bbl at 22 inches. Does any one stock .375 Taylor dies or are they strictly a custom proposition? Any reloading data? Thanks, Cobalt

Cobalt- I notice your from Niceville, I grew up and graduated at Niceville High School a long time ago. Great place to grow up lots of hunting and fishing and swimming in Turkey creek. Still have a few friends there. The CZ action is supposed to be made from a superior steel (Podi). The czechs and FN produced most of the Mauser actions for the rest of the world after Germanys defeat in WWI. HTH
hsp223

Cobalt,
Checking RCBS, Hornady and redding shows the dies to be custom or special order. As to loading data. The 375 Taylor, also goes by the name of 375-338 and 375-338 Chatfield Taylor.

Sorry hit the button to quick. There is some reloading data on the 416 Taylor site. The link is on the link page. http://www.geocities.com/bw_99835/page19.htm

Cobalt and hsp 223, Both from Niceville huh? I lived in Destin and worked at Fudpuckers Beachside Bar & Grill for 10 years. Either of you fellas know T-Bear?

Cobalt,
You will need to get the two actions side by side. I have found the finish of the m1909 is better than the VZ. This tells me the craftsmen spent more time on their creations. I have owned a VZ-24. I do not feel it is smoother, actually rougher. Lastly while the VZ can be made into an outstanding custom, the cyrillic lettering is not aesthetically pleasing to my eye while the DWM is.

I know absolutely nothing about the quality of the steels of the two actions so I will not comment on that. I will say though you are samck in the middle of the steel capital of the U.S. so if you wanted too, get a VZ and an Argie (stripped) and send them to Crucible for a metal analysis. Probably cost you $50.

HHhhhmmmm. I just remembered. I could do an analysis of content by sticking the metal in the electron microscope at Univ. of AK Fairbanks. Problem is the vessel is limited to 4 inches per side so I would have to use pieces of action. The electron beam can be powered up and focused so it penetrates the surface of the object under investigation. The percentage of element content is read off as a "spike" graph with numbers and element labels. Pretty cool.

Crucible would be able to look at the structure to determine if the metal has been properly heat treated, porosities/inclusions and contaminants.

Greetings, former Nicevillians. Hsp223, the area around Turkey Creek has really developed. You couldn't hunt with a BB gun now with out fear of hitting a vehicle or Waffle House. Carnivore, one of my favorite local bands of all time, Miss Demeanor played as the house band at Fud's for a long time. Assigned to Eglin in 1990, retired last year. Great place to live (Blue Water Bay) Cobalt

Cobalt--Roger Rothschild is correct, the 1909 has a better finish than the CZ and the workers definately paid more attention to detail in the finishing department. Also the hinged mag well is very nice. I don't think you could go wrong with either action.

Bluewater bay? I was on the grounds crew when that place got started. cleared a lot of land for the golf course as well as the Marina area. Worked there for a few years after highschool and before college. Still know the owner of the marina, I went to school with him and he married my sisters best friend. I need to get back and visit old friends as many are starting to pass on.

hsp223,
Drop me a note when you decide to come and we'll throw back a few and talk shooting. Cobalt

The VZ24 and the 1909 Argentine are equal and you will not have to have it re-heat treat it unless you want to ruin it..

That rumor was propagated by idiots who tested the 1909 on the outside of the receiver, when it is hardened inside and soft outside in order to stop it from flying apart with an over load..A 1909 will puff up, not blow up and I like that!!

Both actions can be opened up to full 375 lenth safely if done correctly and mostly in back therefore the action will easily except a full lenth 404 Jefferys which is, by the way, shorter than a 375 H&H...The English and Europeans have been doing this for years and there are a lot of old Holland and Hollands, Westley Richards still floating around and being used in the game fields built on thoes actions...

As to the question of how much the rails will have to be openned, I believe that depends on the individual action and should be a hand fit and tested operation, particularly in a DGR...All of the other calibers mentioned will work fine in either action....Same with the M-70 actions...

A word of warning here. The Mauser was designed for a specific cartridge example a 7x57 is designed for a 7x57 and a 8x57 although very similar is very slightly different and the Mauser in that caliber is designed for the 8x57 on so forth...When you change one then you are required to change all the other different aspects. Many gunsmiths don't have a clue how to accomplish this, so pick your gunsmith with care when converting a Mauser, especially on a DGR....

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Ray,
Yesterday I visited a local gun shop and examined a number of surplus Mausers with the VZ24 action. The bottom metal design really does leave something to be desired. Seems that can be easily overcome with an after market floor plate/trigger guard. They had no Argentines or Venezuelans for comparason. I value your experience, so which of the surplus Mauser actions would you use in building a working rifle in .375 Dakota or Taylor? Thanks, Bob

It occurred to me that the CZ550 in .270Win sitting in the closet could just as easily be rebarreled to one of the short .375's as one of the surplus Mauser actions. From a practical standpoint, would the surplus action offer any advantages over the modern one? Thanks, Bob