As the subject line indicates, I have a problem with my pre-64 in 300 Mag. I purchased it from a professional footbal player so the LOP was too long for me plus it was not a very good looking custom stock, so Chic Worthing did a great job of cutting it down for me, sanding the acrylic finish and making it look like more of a traditional rifle. My only mistake was that I only sent him the stock where I should have sent the entire rifle. The rifle used to be a tackdriver, half inch groups with my std load of 180 partitions and 70gr of IMR 4350.

When I got the stock back, it would not shoot worth beans, so I had the barrel full-length bedded. It has become a pain in the ass! True and tried 300 loads, either mine or ones I borrowed, range from 1.5" to 2.5" all in a "triangle" so i know it's not the scope. OThers shoot two real tight and the third is a flyer. In desperation, I bought a box of 150gr Core Lockts at Wal Mart and that shoots into consistent 3/4" groups, but I have to let the rifle completly cool down after 3 shots in order for it to group.

To my amatelearned gents suggest I do, can I have the bedding removed and leave the barrel like the factory ones? I believe the only pressure point is the forearm retention screw. It's too bad, I can't trust the damned thing now!!! jorge

Before the internet was invented we used to call or write a vendor and mention a problem. We did not put our complaints in the newspaper.

What the hell does that mean? Before the internet was invented, I only had to put up with idiotic comments and suggestions from the editorials or the letters to the editor section in gun magazines. But at least those were regulated somewhat, here they let any microcephalic buffoon post. jorge

Jorge,
Ignore Savage 99, he likes to see his own posts.

It doesn't sound like anything Chic did would have caused this problem, so we're left to analyze the other options. I would suspect that the rifle either didn't seat back into the bedding the same way when you replaced it in the stock, or you don't have the proper torque on the actions screws. The first thing I would do is try to tighten the actions screws, perhaps with a inch-lb wrench until they are around 55-60 inch-lbs. Try different settings if this doesn't take care of it.
The next thing I would try is to put business cards under the barrel at the front of the stock to build up a bit of a pressure point. These might take a while and a bit of ammo, so take your time and load up lots of your favorite load. However, did this rifle shoot accurately with this load, or is this a load you used in another rifle? Sounds like you couldn't shoot this rifle with the extra long LOP? Or am I misunderstanding?
My best loads in 300 Win Mag have always been with H4831, so you might try a different load with this rifle.
After all this, if you can't get results you have to look at the scope. Try a different scope that is known to be okay and see if that takes care of the problem.

You've probably tried all of this so if you have, just ignore all this- but when this happens I know I just want to about tear my hair out by time I get it figured out. Hope you get some resolution- Bob

I dont disagree with what Sheister said, but I wouldn't use business cards for shims. Rather, very very thin pieces of lead or other soft metal.

Blue

blue,

If you've ever done this you'll realize a soft metal won't work to build up the pressure. You need something that won't compress or settle and lead or other soft metals just won't suffice as they will "thin out" as they heat up. Consider the fact this is just a temporary fix anyway and once determined, the cards will be removed and a permanent pressure point can be installed with bedding compound or other means.- Sheister

Hey Jorge, Have you played with screw tension on the action screws? They may very well be your problem. My experience with M70's is to have the middle screw (front trigger guard screw) just barely snug. A lot of people believe the middle screw being too tight actually put's the action in a bind.

The way I've always installed mine is to tighten all the screws down so they just kiss the action, then tighten the front screw 1st, then the back one, then just tighten the middle one enough so the trigger guard is held in place. Once at the range if it doesn't group well I'll play with the screw tension on the front screw. Another thing with a pre-64 is the screw tension on the barrel screw, I've never owned a pre-64 but I'm sure this will also need to be tweaked.

You may have already done this, it's helped me in the past.


Terry

Sheister

actually, I have done it using soft metals and it worked ()and continues to work) just fine.

Blue

Thanks guys. Yes, I'll ignore the "short scool bus" idiots that often-times seem to abound here. Sheister, It wasn't anything Chic did, but we spoke about the problem before and I should have sent him the entire rifle so he could have shaped the stock better. Yes it was too long for me. Regarding H-4831, a friend of mine has a load that has shot well in every rifle he's tried, I believe it's 75gr of H-4831. I did fool around with the screws, tightening them as you all suggested and that did seem to help. The frustrating part is that it shoots those 150gr Core Lockts very well, provided the barrel is cool of course, but I don't like 150gr bullets I just don't think they'll hold up. Well, I'll keep trying and let you guys know. jorge

Jorge, was the barrel channel bedded but not the receiver area? If that's so, that could be one of your main problems.

AD

Allen: Only the barrel was channel bedded. Should I have the action bedded as well?

Jorge, I would consider it a good idea. In fact, I would suggest having the action pillar/glass bedded and let the entire barrel float.

Chuck

Jorge,



I missed that completely about the action not being bedded. Allen hit it right on the head. If the action isn't bedded, at least under the front ring, behind the recoil lug, and under the tang, you won't be able to affect the accuracy much by adjusting the screws. I'm not sure pillar bedding is necessary, but it surely can't hurt if done properly.

Looks like you've got a pretty long laundry list ahead of you. Have fun trying to figure it all out!- Sheister

Jorge, anytime I bed a rifle, especially if the work involves any barrel bedding, I always bed in at least two stages. The biggest mistake you can make is to try and get it all done at once, and in addition, you MUST bed the receiver first. The receiver area is the foundation, the bedrock of the entire rifle.

The very first thing I would do is prep the barrel channel to eliminate any places that might be binding, and since you already have bedding material in the channel, I would remove all of it.

Next, I would remove the trigger group, bolt stop, and magazine box, fill in the magazine cuts (ejector slot, etc.) with Silly Putty, carefully prepare the stock and metal, and then bed the receiver-only. After this has cured and you've trimmed the excess, etc., you may go in and bed the barrel channel. On pre-64 M70s, I've had the best luck if I bed the barrel without the forend screw in place (I fill in the screw holes on the stock and barrel with Silly Putty). After the barrel bedding has cured, cut out the bedding compound around the forend screw hole of the stock, remove any Silly putty from the barrel escutcheon, etc. and at that point I reassemble, tighten the action screws first, then install and snug-up the forend screw.

I've bedded at least a score of old beater Model 70s that wouldn't shoot very well in this manner, and every single one of them would shoot into right at an inch at 100 yds. or less afterwards.........

AD

Just a suggestion if you don't mind. Since a Chic Worthing has now worked on the outside perhaps the same level should be put into the inside. If it had shot well of course then no further work would be necessary.



While it's not known for how long this particular rifle shot well before the seasons have changed now. The increase in humidity is way up in some climates for instance. Thus a change in the moisture content of the stock could have affected the accuracy.



Here is a first step idea before epoxy gets slathered all over. Take a look at a nice Mauser or FN and copy the bushing bedding they use. It's very easy to make bushings from any tubing including cartidge cases. If this works then seal the inside. This is quick and easy to do. Give it a try and good luck.

Those guys from Washington you cant trust. We see their trucks with washington plates driveing down our roads in Idaho and their trucks all drive side ways , like the rear axle is intalled crooked . Maybe they modify their trucks that way so they can get a better shot out the window while driveing. I suspect you got one of their special stock designed to shoot out of a pickup truck window.

Jorge:

I've cut many stocks down, both shotgun and rifle, to mount recoil pads and to adjust the LOP for the owners. I have also refinished many stocks. I can't see how this procedure can be blamed on creating a inaccurate rifle form one that shot good before the word was carried out. If bedding is to be carried out,Pillar Bedding is preferable, then the action must be done first as other posters have stated. Hope you can solve your problem soon.

Good Luck

Jorge,

Sorry to hear the continuing problems. You should bed the action as Allen suggested and when we talked I thought you had done that.



For everyones information there was one thing that could have created a pressure point and it is true it would have been best to have the whole rifle. The forend tip prior to the change was 6" long, had a 45 degree angle and the sling swivel was in the forend tip but the diamond shape piece of metal that was under the swivel stud extended into the stock. I put a much smaller piece of Cocobollo on for a forend tip and inletted some of the butt stock wood into the remains of the metal diamond inletting. The problem was that I did not have the forend metal to inlet it to. The whole barrel channel was glass bedded, so I made an impression of the barrel channel with fiberglass reinforced with a 3/8" diameter piece of readi-bolt as a rebar. Then when I inletted the barrel channel in the forend tip I had a pattern to go by. That forend tip may have been causing some pressure although it fit my pattern well. If it is the culprit then bedding only the barrel channel would fill some voids between the forend and the action and may put the action in a bind.



The resolution would have been simple if it was sent to me and I will certainly do it for Jorge now if he wishes. I even have some of that ammo here after a recent acquisition.



Get it in the mail to me and you will have it back in a couple of weeks. I likely will remove the glass you put in the barrel channel and then remove any wood that is touching and bed that and the action and test fire until it works well.

Jorge, that is a solid offer of assistance if I've ever heard one, and I'd take Chic up on his offer!

AD

Howdy Chic, I knew sooner or later you'd chime in! Just got back from the range. Last night I gave it a good cleaning, retightened the screws and loaded two of my sure fire loads of IMR 4350 (70gr) and RL-22 (75.5gr) both with 180 partitions. Got exactly 1.5" groups with both, first two touching and the last shot high and left opening the groups up. I'll get it off to you this week Chic. THANK YOU. IS your address still on the website? if not send it to my AOL account pls. THANKS again to all that helped. jorge

PS: I'd rather get hit in the nuts with a ball-peen hammer than be seen with a 700!

My link isn't showing up on my posts anymore but the adress is 3020 Conarty Road, Malaga WA 98828. Send it registered mail. They call me and tell me a rifle has arrived and I drive down and pick it up. Gotta love these small town post offices.

I sent you a couple of emails but can I send it UPS instead? Let me know. jorge

Jorge,
You can send it UPS, I just dont trust them. Have heard and know of too many horror stories of broken guns and them not honoring the insurance.

BTW, the web site link is back. Wasnt there this morning..... and no I was not drinking.

Chic

HC: Sorry to hear your taste in rifles comes out the same end as you afterburners. If you cared to actually read my post, the rifle was a tackdriver prior to a stock mod. Never had to worry about handles falling off, unsafe triggers and poor workmanship. jorge

Chic,

I really don't think that thing needs pillar bedding. From what he says it does need bedding. That inconsistency with the fliers suggests bedding. Do you really sometimes float barrels?

Jim

Jim,

I was thinking of just bedding this rifle only. I will remove the glass that was recently placed first and see what is happening. I normally just inlet to the wood full length and see how it shoots. I rarely find one that doesn't. I don't make it a general practice to float a barrel. If I do, I leave a small amount of contact along the top of the inletting and relieve the rest. That was an old tip from Maurice. Paul Dressel also gave me a good tip that is very useful with full length stocks and that was to make a milling cut with a ball end mill along the bottom of the forearm within a 1/4" of the full depth. This creates a thin web and if the stock wants to move in time, the strength it now has is greatly diminished and its effect on changing the accuracy if it wants to move is equally diminished.

I was married to a woman once. She was great in bed!! A wonderful companion but didn't win many beauty contests. I suggested why not try plastic surgery. So, she did. Those doctors do miracles. Now beautiful....but gone. Not of much use to me I can say . Moral of story: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Well gents, I have subjecr rifle back in hand, along with Chic's targets. So much for "rag-pre-64s" (as our local village idiot calls them) not shooting. I am so pleased that I might just have to take this rifle to Africa instead of the 300 H&H. I;ll get some pics of the targets and the rifle and post them next week. Enjoy the Fourth and remember the Lads out there on the front line. I just had to send three of my people on temporary assignment "over there" for six months. The price of freedom is a value the protected shall never know. HAPPY FOURTH! jorge